your mind obviously has no spiritual insight. thus discussing with you is like discussing with a blind man
"suffering" does not occur without "self-reference"
however, this statement is very controversial & cannot be understood by the unenlightened
in fact, its reality, may sound cruel
for example, a fish taken out of water flips, flaps & throbs until it dies. for the enlightened, this flipping, flapping & throbbing are mere gyrations of the nervous system of the fish, caused by lack of oxygen, etc. it is actually not "suffering"
the same with an abortion (whoo!). a foetus may feel sensations via the nervous system but because the foetus cannot manufacture the mental concept or though of "self", it cannot suffer
you problem is you are unable to confirm this reality because your mind is not enlightened
thus your posts remain within the sphere of superstition
