Pirate Party proposes a basic income for all

Originally posted by whereu ↑

When a proprietor closes down a steel mill in pursuit of lower wages offshore, enforced by state power, is that getting a free ride for nothing and breeding contempt? Can you show me where the proprietor has "worked" or "contributed to society" or whatever other euphemism you might care to use in describing the actions of this parasite?

You claim that the universe is a simulation. So don't ask us, ask you mate who wrote/created the simulation. and while you're at it blame him/her for everything that you don't like.

I said wrote/create to take wotsup beliefs into account.

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Originally posted by whereu ↑

You have made an assumption that a simulation takes away free will.

I have made no such assumption related to whether or not the simulation hypothesis does or not take away from free will - that's your idea, not mine. In any case aren't you making this claim by insisting that consciousness is outside the universe, simulated or otherwise. Please explain.

Sheldrake is a biologist not a physicist, and the simulation hypothesis is not ascribed to him. It was NASA physicist Tom Campbell who has the best take on simulation and how it relates to consciousness.

I thought that Sheldrake embraces the simulation hypothesis rather enthusiastically - my apologies if I'm wrong.

Nowhere is it implied anywhere by anyone except you that a simulation takes away free will.

If this turns out to be true (simulation takes away free will), I'll claim a Nobel prize, even though I don't recall making such a clam. Perhaps you would like to help me by showing where I made such a claim in case I need this to claim my Nobel prize.

Consciousness exists independently of the material universe.

That's an extraordinary claim which requires evidence. Existence outside the material universe (whatever that means) is a common claim made by new age followers. I doubt that you will be able to front up with the evidence given that you haven't been able to define consciousness in any shape or form, especially in a manner that enables this idea to be tested.

Can you show me a dissected consciousness?
No, I can't. I don't know enough about consciousness to answer. What I do know is that we all experience consciousness (in this universe) and it can be observed at work in scans (in this universe).

On the contrary, it is your nineteenth century medical materialism (before the discovery of Quantum Mechanics and Relativity) which declares consciousness to be an epiphenomenon.

Rubbish. I have often used Relativity and Quantum Mechanics in my discussions - these scientific ideas were used to consider the possibility that the universe started from nothing; you may not have read the post. .

There are many scientific ideas of the 19th century that are still in use today These include electromagnetism, thermodynamics and the idea of the periodic table of the elements. In any case, it is you who is going back to the past by introducing ancient mysticism of some undefined existence outside the universe.

Given that I have seen no concise description of what you are writing about, I suggest that none of these new age gurus really understand their own positions. That's not really the sad bit - the really sad bit is that they don't admit ignorance.

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When you can point me to a definition of consciousness that can be supported by evidence and that can be used to explain your new age ideas, I'll be happy to continue this discussion.

PS Albert Einstein is that guy who came up with relativity.

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You said it here smartypants. You have made the clear implication that a simulation must be deterministic and that there cannot be any free will in a simulation, or maybe you were just trying to derail the pirate party and basic income thread.

Whereu wrote? "So don't ask us, ask you mate who wrote/created the simulation. and while you're at it blame him/her for everything that you don't like."