christians no different to muslims, page-93

Jantimot,

"There is plenty of evidence out there, including from WWII, as the Japanese used to crucify prisoners. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringer_Edwards

But if you google crucifixion, you'll find that the general time to death was two to five days (Edwards was 63 hours on the cross before he was cut down alive)."

So EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVER CRUCIFIED TOOK A LONG TIME TO DIE?

"Were the other two, scourged and beaten to the same degree before they were crucified?"

Ah ah! Myth. There is nothing in the bible to say who was scourged more."

Right. So then it's possible that Jesus could have been beaten almost to the point of death before he was crucified then. The signs are all there, he couldn't carry his cross as the others did for one.


"So we have 'what you think' vs eyewitness testimony from someone who was there along with a modern medical explanation for the event?"

No, we have the eyewitness account, and, yes, I think that a more likely explanation is that his bladder was pierced, hence the water, and he was still alive, hence the blood."

And why did they spear him when the standard practice was to break the legs so that the victim could not push up and would then suffocate?

Oh yeah, that's right,

John 19:32-33 "The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. "

Got it yet? HE WAS ALREADY DEAD, and if you argue that Pilate knew about crucifixions then you can be pretty sure that his executioners could tell when a person was dead.

"That, to me, is a far more likely explanation than a spear being casually thrust into the body and just happening to be at exactly the right angle and position to sneak through the ribcage and pierce a very small area of blood clots."

It wouldn't be that hard to pierce the heart of lungs of an unmoving target, soldiers are trained to aim for those areas in combat after all. But lets SPECULATE some more on your theory. You are claiming that he was stabbed in the bladder causing it to evacuate, yet nowhere does it say that he cried out or reacted in anyway after being stabbed. I imagine having your guts pierced by a spear would be pretty painful so to have no reaction would indicate that if he wasn't dead at the time he wasn't far from it. But lets continue the fantasy even further and say that he was still alive and somehow the executioners didn't notice before he was rescued by his followers. What then? He went on to a full recovery despite being scourged, beaten, crucifies and mortally wounded by a Roman spear? Unless, he was rescued by the starship enterprise who beamed him on board and healed his wounds using their medical technology. Yeah that would work and it's as valid as any other wild speculation I hear on this topic.


"John 20.7 states that the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head was folded up by itself, separate from the linen."

Here's the full text:

"5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen."

So nothing in there to suggest ""Somebody unrolled the embalming cloths in the tomb -" as you claimed.