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08/08/14
08:43
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Originally posted by mjp2
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What is wrong with these folk? I know a lot of them. They live in a self reinforcing bubble. They actively subscribe to and receive lobbying via political channels, including denialist sources tailored for them. They have a, to be fair, not totally unreasonable belief as a generalisation that greenies are loonies. For many that comes from the 60's and 70's when green Malthusian beliefs were argued persuasively as science - by the likes of Paul Ehrlich - and got political support from Jimmy Carter who sat in sweaters in the White House with the heating off in the middle of winter. Carter believed in the concerns then that peak oil was imminent. They see this climate change bunkem as just another case of the looney left. They are confident partly because they believe they have seen it before and seen the greens proved wrong before. And they have related institutional beliefs and memories that support their views.
They are often very successful, and politically and socially well connected people who are very self confident. Given the need they will debate (actually lecture) you and leave the room very happy and confident within themselves and pleased to have informed you of how it really is. But mostly, they are not likely to engage seriously and non-politically with any-one that is of a strongly different persuasion on climate change. If you do talk with them they will pride themselves on their knowledge and the manner in which they firmly but politely, dismissed your arguments or deflected the subject to something more seemly. Their political leanings are against big government and interference in the economy. Carbon taxes seem an anathema to their economic beliefs and they are totally sceptical of the science that might justify action because they have been plausibly but deceptively lobbied otherwise by vested interests.
Unless you have access to them and are very persistent and able to muster very strong argument and supporting fact you will not be given any credence whatsoever. They have heard all the denial counter arguments, so your points will seem clearly contrary to good sources. And with many of them a contrary view is unlikely to get near them, in the first place, because of the circles they move in.
In short, there's nothing wrong with them. They just live in an alternate reality and hold strong beliefs that are re-enforced by their surroundings. And they do not like being wrong.
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Hi mjp2, I like your post. Most of that seems to be pretty much correct. I feel you missed two important point though. What denialists want is some evidence and there is no credible evidence. That is the whole crux of the matter. What warmist take as evidence can be easily refuted by any credible scientist. As has been said many times across millions of blogs and articles etc. It only takes one assumption to be wrong to disprove a theory. With AGW there are dozens of wrong assumptions.
The second is your descriptions applied to denialists could just as easily be applied to warmists. eg:
"What is wrong with these folk? I know a lot of them. They live in a self reinforcing bubble. They actively subscribe to and receive lobbying via political channels, including warmist sources tailored for them."