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DBT9

23,500 Posts.

28/02/15

16:46

Post #: 14837272
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Originally posted by wafflehead ↑

It takes a long time to understand somebody. I misunderstood your first point.
But in any case all the true religions differ mostly if not entirely in their non-essential doctrine. Hinduism and Christianity have travelled very circuitous paths and may not be the religions they once were. If Krishna and Christ met they would be in complete agreement and harmony. Their religions over many thousands of years have been led into false a conflict of ideologies.

Religious truth is relative and not absolute. It is also cultural and ethnocentric. It is mainly based in its time and place with truisms that then transcend time and place. These religions also come from very different time frames.

'The ''natural world'' is the energetic complex universe of interacting matter/energy objects as we see it and experience it, matter/energy in its many forms and configurations.' Absolutely true!

'If you are claiming that no such thing exists while typing on your computer, tablet or smartphone, you are clearly mistaken.' Here again we did not understand each other.' Of course it exists. I do not for one second follow the 'what's really real' philosophy. My computer is real.

What I'm saying is the system can't be self originating or self perpetuating unless some unseen force lies beneath the entire system of things coordinating them into a cohesive whole. Why should an atom be bound by the strong and weak nuclear force? Why should this occur the same way in every atom of existence. When people say mother nature or the natural system of things, well what exactly is this natural system of things? A non-conscious natural system of things is impossible. Utterly impossible because we would then have a system of chance, and it has to be chance if it's not conscious because only conscious systems can make conscious decisions. So if it's chance then it stumbles into one blindingly brilliant happenstance after the other. Why it even by chance produced life and RNA and DNA and a universe of creatures beyond any possible understanding of humankind, all by chance. Without consciousness how can such a system self-perpetuate? It could not be any clearer than that.

When you dismiss a Divine Consciousness you are left with a system of perfection governed by nothing but chance. Now if you say, 'but once it got started away it all went and evolved away till we got the universe we have today.' Really, that can happen. When you eliminate First Cause and Perfect Consciousness what could possible drive the system.

Not only that but the force behind the system shares itself with each individual so that they emerge from creation as a sentient being.

'Nor is the universe an '' inanimate nothing called nature '' - it is definitely something with clearly defined features and attributes that enables complex structures to form and develop according to its rules and principles.' True again, but what enables complex structures to form and develop? Not an unconscious universe of minerals and forces that just turned into the universe we see. It must be conscious.

'It is the invisible, undetectable, unverifiable world of supernatural entities and a magical manifestation of the world that is the expression of illusionary thought.' The vast majority of the bulk of our universe is undetectable. Your showing your prejudice by going on about supernatural entities and magical manifestation and illusionary thought. Could there be a greater illusion than to imagine that the system that constructed matter, the universe, habitable planets, life and sentient beings is without consciousness? That we could become conscious from unconsciousness?

Sure the junk perpetuated by many religions is unfit for human consumption, and the various forms and personifications of God turn people away from religion, but there can be no doubt that the universe is embedded in a field of consciousness or it would be without order.

I'm so tired I can't read back over this to see if it makes sense. I did waffle a bit.

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''When you dismiss a Divine Consciousness you are left with a system of perfection governed by nothing but chance. Now if you say, 'but once it got started away it all went and evolved away till we got the universe we have today.' Really, that can happen. When you eliminate First Cause and Perfect Consciousness what could possible drive the system.''

There is no evidence for 'Divine Consciousness'' - it is an unfounded proposition being offered as a solution to the existence of the complex systems of the natural wold.
And the same narrative comes up again and again - nothing but chance, and nothing comes from nothing - which are false because the world does not operate on chance. Matter/energy has well defined attributes and features that allow complex structures to form without the aid of supernatural entities, chemistry, physics, energy, etc, drive the dynamic and complex chemistry that the earth is composed of.

The prospect of a 'First Cause and Perfect Consciousness'' has no evidential support whatsoever.

Last edited by DBT9: 28/02/15
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