"I'll attempt to summarize what I think you posted.
An all knowing God created a perfect world which was free of death and sin."
Agree,i did answer these questions in my previous post,but you either didnt look at it,or disregarded it,or else you wouldnt be asking these questions etc
"Part of this perfect world was a gift of "free will"
God included instructions in his perfect world.
Disobeying the instructions lead to an imperfect world.
Humans were powerless to revert the world back to a perfect state
God needed to intervene to restore perfection."
Agree
"A number of points don't make sense to me."
Fair enough.
"An all knowing God would have known that his creation would lead to disobedience, and that this disobedience would lead to imperfection"
Correct.
". It appears that a 5 minute incident several thousand years ago involving a minor transgression on Adam and Eve's part threw all of mankind and nature into disarray."
That is an assumption on your behalf to assume that,there is no evidence in this record to support that it was a minor act to willingly choose to go your own way
Meaning, because they chose to go their own way,because they had the freedom of choice to do this.
God could well have created robot like beings,but he didnt,he made humans with freedom of choice.
With that freedom of choice,came responsibilty,willing disobedience has consequences.
God clearly outlined the choice,and the clear consequences of what disobedience entailed,death Gen 2.17
Just as telling a child who has never experienced what a hot plate is,and the results of touching one, from their own experience
Only because a parent told them,do not really fully understand the consequences,until they choose to touch it themselves.
Once they do touch it,they then fully,understand the consequences of making that choice.They may well be sorry they didnt listen and disobeyed,but the disobedience,had consequences,pain,no matter how sorry they are after the fact,that dosent change the consequences of the action chosen to be done.
Same with sin,Adam flet guilt,because he hid himself,there was a change that took place after the action he took,his nature changed,he felt guilt,and actually the opposite to what you are claiming happened.
God showed mercy on their choice,or free will ,to sin,he gave mankind a way to be redeemed.
He set out the guidelines as a loving creator,but bound by their own free choice to bring sin and dieing into the world,gave those who choose to have their sins forgiven,a way out.
Romans 5.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
So the bible story,paints a completely different picture and sinerio than which you have assumed Whereru, i could keep giving more and more texts ,but unfortunately ,and i hope im wrong,you already have made up your mind on the subject anyway,despite the evidence contrary to what you are claiming about the character of God.
""A "design" that lead to all future generations inheriting a "reprobate mind""
No,he created beings with free choice,free will,to obey,or not to obey.
And according to what they CHOSE,will be according to what their future is.
"because of a single transgression by just two people in which one (eve) admitted her mistake."
Correct
And God forgave that mistake,and he set up a system whereby mankind could have forgiveness for sins until the promised messiah came to free them from their predicament.
God cannot just change the goalposts as this world is an example of the results of not following Gods ways and government.
Because there is an opposite position in this world,that of Lucifer,now called the adversary,the God of this world,because he captured it when mankind sinned.
So you are putting the blame of God,when the great deciever and adversary and author of evil,is responsible,and this what the bible says.
"Not only that but a design that lead to the deterioration of of the entire world from that single incident. '
There are two ways mankind can choose in this world
This is the choice the first humans had to choose from
God said,very clearly Whereru,
You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"Gen 3.3
And in Gen 2.17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.
The adversary said the exact opposite to them.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3.4
The adversary was the first to utter the first lie of immortality of the soul,something all mainstream religions still parrot today.
The two were made perfectly aware,of what the consequences of disobedience were.
They may not have fully understood the results of their actions before they chose with their free individual right,but nether the less,that didnt change the fact.
You may walk out in front of a truck,if you are lucky to survive that incident,you may be well sorry of the choice you made,but it dosent change the consequences of your own actions.
The entry of sin,is no different
The pair were obviously sorry for what they did
God was sorry they did it
But that didnt change the result,mankind was now condemned to death
How you can blame God for that ,escapes me to be honest.?
'Forgiveness is a major theme in scripture; yet little mention is made of God forgiving Adam and Eve for their transgression even though Eve admitted that she had been deceived."
DISAGREE,HE GAVE THEM THE PROMISE OF A REDEEMER,he gave them a way out and forgiveness for their transgressions through the sacrifical sytems that pointed to the savoiur who would forgive them their sins,and redeem mankind,it is the theme of the bible from start to finish,that God so loved the world,that he gave his only begotten son,that whomsoever shall believe in him shall have everlasting life John 3.16
One of us is either not reading the bible story,its all there,i dont know how you can say God makes little mention of Forgiving Adam and eve?
"Even in our so called fallen state we often come round to admitting our faults and to seeking forgiveness."
"Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea." Micah 7:18-19
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more." Isaiah 43:25
"Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other… They will say of me, ‘In the LORD ALONE are righteousness and strength.’ All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. But in the LORD all the descendants of Israel will be found righteous and will exult." Isaiah 45:21-22, 24-25
"When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, ‘Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, "Your sins are forgiven," or to say, "Get up, take your mat and walk"? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . .’ He said to the paralytic, ‘I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.’ He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this!’" Mark 2:5-12
"Then Jesus said to her, ‘Your sins are forgiven.’ The other guests began to say among themselves, ‘Who is this who even forgives sins?’" Luke 7:48-49
"He said to them, ‘This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.’ Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached IN HIS NAME to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:44-47
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." John 3:16-17
"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it." John 12:47
"Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, ‘He told me everything I ever did.’ So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. And because of his words many more became believers. They said to the woman, ‘We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.’" John 4:39-42
"And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world." 1 John 4:14
"Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified BY FAITH IN ME.’" Acts 26:15-18
"It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption." 1 Corinthians 1:30
"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." 2 Corinthians 5:21
"What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gainChrist and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith." Philippians 3:8-9
The Apostles also believed that God grants saving faith and belief for the sake of Christ, on account of the righteous character and life of the Lord Jesus his beloved Son:
"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake," Philippians 1:29
"Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" 2 Peter 1:1
They even proclaimed that only Jesus could and does save, that salvation is found in Christ alone since he is its source:
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12
"Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" Hebrews 5:8-9
"It seems to be reasonable to me that Adam and Eve would have done the same if they were given a chance. After all they were only a single minor transgression away from perfection which could have been restored through forgiveness. "
Obviously,by all the deaths and wars in the history of mankind and the earth,it wasnt a minor transgression at all,it was major,and this is the consequences.
"The complete restoration of perfection seems to be something that happens in the future.'
Correct,although Jesus was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, 1peter1.20 and Rev 13.8
"In the meantime billions suffer the consequences of the incident that lead to the imperfection.""
Unfortunately ,yes.
The result of this choice has to run its course,this is the trial and demonstration of not following Gods Government and his ways,this is the result of following self
"I find it very difficult to believe that an all powerful creator God would have designed his creation with this outcome."
He didnt design this,that is your thoughts mate,unfortunately.
In Genesis,it clearly states,that God created the heavens and the earth,and they were GOOD,PERFECT.
The bible also states,that DEATH IS THE ENEMY OF GOD,and is the result of disobedience,never part of his original plan.Its clear.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 corinthians 15.23
and also my favourite text in the bible clearly says death is not what Gods intention was
Revelation 21:4
‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
"In addition there is no evidence to support the notion that at some point in history all of nature flicked from a state of perfection to a state of imperfection."
Yes,just like the cambrian explosion,in your belief.
Some things are accepted by faith,not blind faith,because there is evidence of other things demonstrated about other subjects that gives one confidence that you can trust the bible as an authority
"Where was sky-daddy when all these crimes were committed against young children ?"
If this question is to be criticized it would be for not being PC.
Lets face it,whereru,it wasnt really a question,it was said to be derogatory,pigs would fly and he really dosent want evidence and discussion,he just wants to ridicule and fight,so really its irrelevant in light of what my previous comments above are,the answer is in that.
"But no, I don't believe it is a *** question or a question based on ignorance. I would agree that it is based on opinion as most questions are.
"For me it is based on what is in my opinion a lack of compassion by a God who is supposed to have the power to protect the vulnerable but fails to do so. '
Everybody is entitled to an opinion,but imo,that opinion is based on faulty subject matter and understanding,which really isnt in line with what the bible teaches at all,but more in line with what pagan beliefs teach that God is like,a vengeful tyranical blood thirsty God of no forgiveness
