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wotsup

24,330 Posts.

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31/08/17

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Post #: 26880969
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Originally posted by MrGordon ↑

If you have a GOOD look beyond the Col 1:16 it becomes clear and obvious God himself made ALL things in Jesus, for because of, for the sake of and (all acceptable within the terms of DIA) all in the eternal plan of God, was this means through whom God's foreknown salvation plan was to come, through Jesus.
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Ok Wotsup I will look both before and beyond Col 1:16. Before Col 1:16 we are told Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" KJV . So obviously Jesus was not involved in his own creation but God alone was responsible. Then we are told at Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they bethrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:¹⁷ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. - KJV.
So just recapping we are told Jehovah created Jesus without anyone else being involved in v 15. Then we are told God created all things "by" Jesus.

Now lets try another verse where "by" is used again in the KJV of your choice.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,² Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

When God " spake ", "by the prophets", were the prophets mute? Or does it mean that God used the prophets to speak for him?
In verse 2 was God's Son silent? Or was Jesus used by God to speak for him?

If the prophets opened their mouths when God spoke "by" them , and if Jesus was used "by " God to speak , does it not also follow that Jesus was involved in the making of "the worlds"? Why should the word "by" be changed to "for" ?

Why is it so hard for you to see what is so obvious?

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Greetings,

You will happy to know, I haven't forgotten you haha, re - the "by's". Been a little involved dissecting, bisecting tenders for our house.
I may have to put the reply on it's own thread to avoid overload of HC or divide it up haha, and I still say, that will only be a snippet of the Whole truth.
I remember a reasonably old movie called or the words used in it = "Can You Handle the Truth"??? and it was expressed with Gusto haha.
I am certain I will be asking you to answer your own words - "Why is it so hard for you to see what is so obvious"? with a few extra obvious, obvious, obvious's tagged on!

Anyway, I was actually seeking you thoughts, understanding of what you think these words following mean/represent, no tricks, just seeking your thoughts?
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the "express" image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power,,,,,,,,,
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