Is the Bible True?, page-605

  1. 8,407 Posts.
    "What I meant was, if the mystics, while in their 'higher state of consciousness' are able to acquire information about the physical world, the human condition, or whatever cannot be acquired through mundane means, then it is this information is that potentially verifiable, if verifiable, there is our objective evidence."

    I'm not sure it works that way.
    The usual division into "physical world" and higher, so called spiritual levels is only one of degree. They are separate only in the same way that for example the atomic or quantum levels are separate from our experience because they are not directly accessible to human senses. Or a vibrating string manifests to us as a solid ellipsoidal object, though that is a consequence of both it's "real" state and it's vibration.
    In both cases we now have physical and mathematical means of going beyond what is accessible through ordinary human senses to learn something about these different levels.

    Those such as advanced Yogis through certain practices can produce phenomena in their bodies that are not possible for untrained people. They acquire access to instinctive levels of their body. Some of the effects are verifiable by external means, but the actual inner activity that enables it is not verifiable unless one is able to replicate it .. and this requires many years of dedicated right practice and access to knowledge, specific training and suitable conditions.
    Also, some of the effects could be produced by trickery or suggestion, misdirection or even certain chemical compounds.
    In the circles and cultures that include these practices and knowledge, this is not something magical or unnatural but it is also not something ordinary or verifiable by the average person.

    Experiences and knowledge acquired through development of finer qualities of attention and consciousness are even more difficult to verify for the average person.
    There is also the question of subjectivity in how what was experienced is conveyed to others. How do you convey to a blind person what colour is or what a breathtaking landscape vista looks like ? If you did, how would the blind person verify what you described ?

    If someone tells you they have experienced an intense feeling of warmth and light in their Solar Plexus or flow of "energy" from their head down the spine, or a timeless feeling of being in the presence of something beyond their normal experience, how can you verify this ? There might be a clue in the way they live, but even this is not necessarily a result of those experiences.
    Someone whose early life was influenced by religious ideas and influences might describe such experiences as being in the presence of God or Jesus or Buddha a state of Nirvana etc. Others might use the term cosmic consciousness or oneness with everything. It could also be an hallucination.
    Probably all one can say is that something has happened .. but it is up to you whether there is a sufficient interest to find out for yourself.

    "A good question....what would it take? Perhaps a body of information that could not have been acquired through normal physical means, observation, instruments, microscopes, telescopes, Hadron colliders, sensors, etc. "

    To be acceptable and verifiable, wouldn't such evidence necessarily have to be obtained through those means and if so what form would it take ?
    Isn't that the issue ?

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