Originally posted by RED328
I have amended and reposted this as I wanted a small change, time ran out to edit.
This article was produced by left leaning ideology.
The facts are to suit purpose. Its what they do NOT say?
The article presents one side only in my opinion.
Reality is They could tell us that.
- South Australia has the most expensive power in Australia and the world. No excuses.
- Green wind and solar energy at industrial scale is more expensive when ALL COSTS are accounted for. (Without Subsidy)
- You cannot say green is cheaper than the other, when the green one needs financial subsidy and lobbying over the other
to appear
cheaper as an incentive to survive and penetrate.
- Grid storage battery systems are hyper expensive, have limited shelf life and cannot supply intensive industry as a backup system. They have limited success supplying domestic needs in peak hours when the sun and wind are not performing.
- South Australia has lost big industry, resulting in a non-industrialized demand/ market need.
- South Australia does rely on power imports for peak supply, when the wind and sun are not generating. That is why they have an interconnector from VIC supplied by base load coal.
- South Australia's power exports are not available on demand reliably 24 hours per day.
- South Australia due to its non industrial business environment has different power demands and needs to that of say Sydney and Melbourne. Thus the model being adopted there will not work in Sydney and Melbourne for example.
- Its not a one model fits all scenario. It is not in Australia's best interest to de-industrialize.
- NSW is a net importer of energy primarily because it is the engine room of Australia, has heavy industry and high energy needs to support a large population. QLD supplies much of this power.
You absolutely have to have solid base load power generation. That could be any of the following.
Nuclear, gas and coal.
A very deliberate worldwide financial redistribution is taking place, be careful what you ask for.
This subject is actually relevant as it involves battery storage materials.
I am not a climate change denier, the earths climate has been changing since big bang or creation.
Australia contributes about 1.3% to greenhouse gas emissions, CO2 (CO2 is by the way plant food and is contributing to the increased greening, food production and productivity of the world as a result) Our chief scientist has officially stated that even if we reduced emissions to nil, (
we would have almost no impact on the climate)
. However we would destroy Australia's international competitiveness and the lifestyle we have here.
China, Russia and America are not sacrificing their international competitive edge. They are doing everything in their power to get stronger, more powerful, more competitive, look around you.
I realize this subject is contentious, hopefully we can be mature about other views.
RED
Red I think you will find the latest modelling on solar and wind is that its generating at lower cost than fully written down coal assets already, and that renewables with 4hrs of storage are already cheaper than coal or gas in providing dispatchable power. As storage comes down the cost curve, this will go to 8rs, 16hrs, and of course 24hrs soon enough.
Large scale renewables are taking 5c/kWh offtake "all in" - it doesn't need a green power premium anymore to compete with coal. The pollies can't admit it - from the left they can't admit it because ideology says government needs to subsidise renewables, and from the right they can't admit it because they see 1950's Australia as perfection. And not enough occupy a sensible middle ground.
The reason why SA gets screwed on power prices is because gentailers play a constrained system. Look at what is happening with Whyalla - renewables and storage are making it possible to run heavy industry. This is the future.
You simply cannot build new gas, coal or nuclear, and deliver power at a price that competes with renewables and storage today. This is why AGL wants to replace Liddell with renewables and storage.
Bear in mind that baseload demand was actually created to match base load power - the inability of coal to ramp up or down quickly in response to demand fluctuations was a massive problem historically, hence creating cheap off peak power to reward 24/hr demand to solve that problem...the need for baseload power, is in fact the other side of the same coin which says, we need flexible demand.
As for other points about Australia's contribution to climate change - the real picture is far more nuanced. the 1.3% argument ignores our historical contribution of land clearing and pastoralisation, riding the sheeps back to development. In my neck of the woods the creeks used to be flush with fish and platypus, and now they are just full of mud and mosquitos. Assessing a nation's contribution to a global problem 500+yrs in the making, simply can't be done by looking a year to two ahead, or behind.
But then even if you do take that short term view, there is also an argument that we should consider the emissions embedded in the products and services we buy - on that front, Australia has benefitted enormously from outsourcing its pollution to the developing world - a per capita emissions by consumption profile has Australian's way out ahead of the pack. To share carbon pollution equitably, globally, we all have about 1t per annum, per person. Step in a plane to Bali and poooof! you will probably blow your carbon budget for the year.
It is factually correct to say by reducing Australia's emissions to zero, we don't affect climate. But its factually correct to say that about any country in the world because - maybe USA or China would budget the climate needle, but not much, it is the sum total that matters and every country has to get on board, or every country loses. A prisoners dilemma extreme.
No, China are not sacrificing their competitive advantage for this - they have realised competitive advantage is building cheap renewables and storage, and so they are going hell for leather.
Geez we agree on a lot about ARL, but on the stuff above I have us in polar opposite camps right now
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