The essence of the facts

Originally posted by wafflehead: ↑

Okay, that was pretty damn cool. Nice post, almost prose.

I guess my point is that what is, IS. There is no point speculating on alternative outcomes, this is the only one we have.

And if we can dismiss all religious versions of God, which I have, is there not still the possibility of something, rather than nothing that causes, that wills, that exudes purpose into living, without which we imagine purpose where none exists?

We have not penetrated the mystery and I'm fascinated, even if you were only partially correct, that religion should be so self-sustaining if it is a complete fiction. Or does it suggest that there is an element of another kind of truth in it, or do we have a permanent psychosis, spiritual, come religious belief, to soften our sentient state, which knows that all we do will come to nothing, as will we?

Many of the positives you mentioned are coming to the fore and does the time it took, the time that was wasted even matter. If we all end up as nothing then the time it took does not matter because those who have suffered under the boot-heel of religion and been rendered ignorant have arrived at exactly the same fate as the most learned of people.

We have always been masters at killing each other and I take little notice of the supposed cause, be it religion, land, food, water, women. There is always a reason and the reasons are not reasons, they are just rallying cries for our savage hearts.

And the arts expanded out way beyond the bounds of religious iconography. It led to new ways to interpret the world, so I challenge you not to be so dismissive regarding religion. If we are going to remove it and free up humans then it must be done by finding the seat of this corruption in the human psyche.

I think there is something in us, another kind of self, even if imagined into existence. Now, did we make it real, or it is real? Are we stumbling blindly to interpret it, to express it. The great tragedy is that the old religions stands between us and knowledge of our better selves. It speaks on behalf of this intangible, better self with the loudest voice, yet it is the idiot child of ignorant fundamentalism.

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And a nice response.

No, I can't dismiss the possibility of something, rather than nothing that causes, that wills, that exudes purpose into living, without which we imagine purpose where none exists.
Neither can I dismiss the possibility of there being other options.
Given the current status of creation, I suspect that this is not the best option.

It appears that we are largely in agreement about extant religions.

Perhaps I am a pathological optimist but believe that on balance life for humans is, in spite of the staus of creation, improving which our doomsday cult colleagues would disagree with a passion because they are convinced that their God had prescribed the opposite.