Timedw, it is not possible to argue with people who can't engage in rational discussion because they don't believe basic scientific facts because there is supposedly some sort of global conspiracy, so I have no choice but to lump AGW sceptics and denialists in with the radical conspiracy theorists. Sorry but that's just my opinion. Your so called 'facts' above have more twists in them than a Chubby Checker concert so I feel any further discussion is a waste of time since we will never agree, short of the climate producing totally undeniable proof either way in the years and decades to come. Let's have a chat again then.