Russia Ukraine war, page-7619

Re "At some point you need to acknowledge that Ukraine is an independent sovereign state that not only was no threat to Russia but whose population have the right to chose their government and political constitution without seeking the approval if Putin or anybody else."

You're expecting Putin to observe some ideal of a liberal democracy and ignore all of the provocation and undemocratic behaviour. I don't see an independent Ukraine minus foreign intrusion as any real threat to Russia, and I really have no idea whether Putin would have acted in other circumstances?

You and others invest a bit of time trying to persuade me of Russia's unique evil, yet no one addresses the obvious elephant in the room, that being that America would not tolerate Russia influencing countries on their border and creating anti-American sentiment. Their foreign policy does not scream "defensive". The US support of the overthow of an elected Ukrainian president who was pro Russian, and the subsequent installing of Zelenskyy, is provocation. The investing of $200 million by the Biden govt in January is provocation. The creep of the NATO borders towards Russia is provocation. The Obama years were one long foreign policy provocation.

My points are clear, I don't see Putin as the only bad guy. US foreign policy and their intrusive behaviour looms large over this, and the same globalist war machine is pushing for yet another European war. No one wins apart from the small elite invested in war.