Russia Ukraine war

Originally posted by AverageJoe: ↑

Info war cannot win the physical war, we can agree on this? So what is the purpose of the info war? To manufacture consensus so that whatever nefarious govt actions can have domestic or international support?

You can learn the precedence from the US right from the WMD Iraq invasion and the all the revelations detailed by Julian Assange and the million demonstrations in major Western capital cities. It didn't change the decision of US no impinge it from further destruction of regime changes in Libya and almost Syria. These are not 100% full proof facts but hidden in along the warm fuzzies. Nor was the hypocrisy of ISIS usage in Syria for the purpose in parallel to Nazis in Ukraine. You will understand that the lesson is that Super powers will do what is in their interest and will find ways to justify their action.

You and the rest of the moral mugs can take this moral high ground but it doesn't change things. The sheer absence of any encouragement to broker for peace does signal that US indeed wants to "fight" this war using just $/weapons at the expense of Ukie lives and also manufacture moral high ground consensus. I have no issue with their decision but for once in their multiple war experiences, they have not met directly a foe that possess even more nuclear weapons so I don't want to wake up to an incident that has cross Kremlin's ultimate red line of nuclear weapons contemplation. The bluff calling has to stopped because Putin as demonstrated doesn't bluff.

Leave the comic book morality behind when you observe and I don't mean to be patronising. This isn't about right or wrong but strategic advantage. The former is for the usual rainbow mugs who is part of the woke crew.

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AJ

So effectively you're saying that because of transgressions and mistakes of the past which in general have no really valid comparisons or parallels with Putin's current exercise and occurred under different background circumstances and conditions that's justification in and of itself to allow and accept Putin's little current exercise ? Hasn't he been trying to engineer and involve himself in 'regime change' in Ukraine since 2014 and before and is now guilty of the very extreme version of it ? You think it's fair enough and acceptable ? You think it fair enough and acceptable he betray his (RFs) guarantees, undertakings and agreements negotiated and accepted by the RF freely and openly ?
Show me the equivalent in terms of the breaches, betrayal, reaction, lies and deceit by comparison and the relative and potential outcomes in any of those 'whataboutisms' events you again mention.
What Kremlin red line ? Explain it. Regardless what gives the Kremlin the right or authority to dictate anything which occurs outside their own territory if it's not threatening or being provoked ? I haven't seen anyone here yet explain how that works despite it being a regularly 'tossed up' justification parroted by the Putin apologists.
Your assertion there was no attempts at talks is complete nonsense...Zelenskyy earlier in the piece made various efforts to talk directly to Putin in the days when Putin was still justifying his adventure largely on the basis of Ukraine joining NATO etc when after initial invasion Zelenskyy put up his hand and said ok let's talk we'll reconsider the NATO thing in effort to stop the carnage. Putin ignored him and continued with his carnage. And it was all moot anyway as there was virtually no chance of Ukraine joining NATO due to NATO admission criteria which Putin himself had made impossible via his 2014 adventures over the border. Another Putin ruse. And thereafter his justification has gone to various themes and stories like dangerous bio weapons manufacture and labs to 'cleansing' of all the Neo Nazi throngs in jackboots to broken promises by NATO and its spread east and on and on it goes-what'll it be tomorrow as the War drags on ? He doesn't like Ukrainian TV ? It's all been rubbish and a ruse......he's just a despotic expansionist-Blind Fred can see that-look to his record.
Re the Putin doesn't bluff claim-are you sure about that ? I seem to recall not so long ago he was threatening all and sundry to end life as we know it with one of his new toys if anyone got in his way and supported Ukraine in any way...well 'they've' been doing that for a good couple of months now and it's ramping up big time-maybe it could happen at any moment if he's not a bluffer ? Wait....what's that I hear ? A siren ? Must rush to the basement, hide and hope.

Seems to me 'regime change' which the 'Putinists' love to drag up on a regular basis here is a damn good idea in the case of Despots, Tyrants and Dictators who don't honour their international obligations, responsibilities and agreements and aggressively and brutally invade and occupy other sovereign states inflicting their death and misery. Past time we had another one I think.