Hey King, you're prob best placed to answer this but I couldn't find a patent associated with 4DS for fully crystalline PCMO.. Amorphous, yes.
See original Desu & Dong Min Press Release 2013.. It worked then, but I accept changes would have been made to get it on the bench.
But FC no, which makes me wonder did we borrow one when Guido said "Has for the first time demonstrated fully crystalline PCMO"
As for IMEC they been on Oxram (albeit filamentary) since late 2016 and creating access devices for the same since 2017 so if they did fumble you might ask how... ?
And finally this quote from Guido dated 17 Aug 21 is a curiosity on reflection... The question being who's were they working on before?
“This important milestone in 4DS’ technology development pathway allows us now to focus on doing the same for integration of our ReRAM technology into imec’s megabit memory platform”
"The interrelationship between BiCS 3D NAND and 3D RRAM bears watching."
"Suffice it to say, that it sure sounds like today SanDisk/Toshiba’s 3D R/W is RRAM." Credit savolainen.wordpress.com 2012
Might consider it a play on words were it not for the quip below and the fact they stuffed it again!!
8tey
https://savolainen.wordpress.com/2011/12/04/3d-nand-and-3d-reram/3D Resistive Random-Access Memory (RRAM)
RRAM and SanDisk/Toshiba’s 3D R/W technology deserves it’s own post, which hopefully I’ll get to in the not so distant future.
Suffice it to say, that it sure sounds like today SanDisk/Toshiba’s 3D R/W is RRAM.
Yoram apparentlysaid as muchat this year’s Flash Memory Summit:
“Further in the future, chip makers including SanDisk are developing 3-D structures that use changes in resistance to create denser chips. But the so-called resistive RAM will require EUV tools, he [Yoram Cedar] said.”
SanDiskhas been lookingfor a new manager for its “3D ReRAM” team since August.
The interrelationship between BiCS 3D NAND and 3D RRAM bears watching.
Toshiba and SanDisk have licensed or otherwise invested in each other’s 3D technologies and today are co-developing both.
In 2008 SanDisk licensed it’s 3D R/W technology to Toshiba.
Then in Q1 2011, SanDisk“made an incremental strategic technology investment with Toshiba that covers a variety of technologies including a three-dimensional NAND architecture, known as Bit Cost Scalable or BiCS, which Toshiba had been developing independently.”
RRAM IP
Many companies have been working on RRAM, for a long time. A very, very long time- which in some respects is a good thing.
Most importantly, the patents on the basic RRAM switching concepts apparently have expired.
The slide below is from a Deepak C. Sekar presentation. Deepak is Chief Scientist at MonolithIC 3D Inc. He also spent almost three years at SanDisk working on both NAND and 3D crosspoint memory
.
Deepak makes three points about RRAM IP in the slide above:
Patents, if any, on the basic switching concepts have expired.
Good patents on more advanced concepts exist (eg) Pt-
replacement approaches, array architectures, doping, etc.
IP scenario for RRAM a key advantage. Other resistive memories have gate-keepers (eg) Basic patents on PCM, CB-RAM, STT-MRAM fro Ovonyx, Axon Technologies, Grandis.
I suspect SanDisk and Toshiba have a particularly nice hand of good patents on the more advanced RRAM concepts, specifically array architectures.
The slide below is from SanDisk’s 2010 Investor Day.
Eli makes the point that SanDisk holds“Fundamental patents in 3D diode arrays (apply to most 3D approaches)”
I’m going to end with this slide from the IMEC consortium. Its a nice summary showing floating gate NAND, 3D Vertical NAND, and RRAM graphed against Cost/Bit and chip capacity.
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Here is thearticlewhere the slide above was taken. Apparently Toshiba/SanDisk hasn’t signed up for the collaborative effort.
“IMEC is working collaboratively with major memory manufacturers including Elpida, Hynix, Micron and Samsung on both flash and follow-on memory roadmaps
Toshiba [Sandisk] is a notable absentee from the program.”
There could be many reasons why Toshiba/SanDisk wouldn’t be interested in working with IMEC.
One would be that Toshiba/SanDisk feel they have the inside track on the roadmap.
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Hi Savo
I’d be interested in your take on the Anobit acquisition by Apple as well. Specifically, what impact (if any) would Anobit have on SanDisk’s x3 semi-monopoly?
“Analyst Jim Handy of Objective Analysis Semiconductor Market Research said that Anobit’s technology will be of growing importance to Apple as each generation of flash becomes more dense, more prone to errors and harder to correct. Anobit won the award for “Best of Show” at the 2010 Flash Memory Summit for its SSD controllers.
…
According to Handy, Anobit technology will let Apple buy “raw NAND (the cheapest kind of NAND) at the lowest possible prices, preventing other companies from competing.”
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/another-driver-behind-apples-anobit-flash-controller-acquisition/11870
Thanks,
Poofypuppy
“I’ll probably dedicate a post to the subject, but probably not until January.” Maybe you should charge subscription fees, Savo, and post weekly. LOL.
So, are you saying that AAPL will need to do “something” further to obtain X3 & 3D expertise?
One thing still glossed over in these 3d presentations is that the area OUTSIDE the array grows in proportion to the number of layers, so the array area efficiency is quite poor. This would undo the cost advantage.
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