Wheres can this UPI article be found that everyone keeps referring to??
The Drudge report times out.
new algorithmic trading forum, page-7
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These guys absolutely suck. I'm sick of them, they are a cancer on the Earth. Do not let them in what ever you do. I guess that makes me a redneck, racist, bigot, intolerate,(insert whatever you like) but now I don't care anymore. THey can all f#@%k off....
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Metals & Mining SECTOR NEWS
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20 Jun 2025 SATURN METALS LIMITEDSaturn Metals reports thick, high-grade gold results supporting Apollo Hill’s potential for low-cost, large-scale mining and processing. In addition, a significant high-grade extensional intersection has... Read more
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Sharenot so stupid now Up 10% Gobs baby, when's the big sell off due? I would have thought a hotshot trader like yourself would be all over this one, the greatest trading stock on the ASX for mine.
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Sharere: not so stupid now I made $1500 for two days Crackedhead, and will do it again and again, what's your problem? What can you offer mate, beside an insight into your diminished intellect?
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Sharere: not so stupid now Yeah, right peanut, aren't you the mega trader? Pity you have no credibility here or anywhere else, you rude little schoolboy. Get a job and stop bugging people....
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Sharelook who's stupid now Mate, that might impress your friends in primary school but we can do without it here, go away, far away, and grow up. Just another multi-nicked dickhead aren't you?
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Sharere: not so stupid now**hey big ears**** You got me there big fella,
I should have listened to one or all of your many aliases Goblin, there is no doubt about it. I'd be buying flat out at 23c today if I had. Ah well, thems the breaks. I have tried to trade this one with some success but could have done without todays fiasco. Still, I've been in and out since 8c so perhaps not such a blow. Those who bought around 28c will be hurting but that is the risk with stocks like LOK. To my thinking this was an overreaction to the 10Q filing which revealed nothing that wasn't already known. I would expect a bounce as those who understand the nature of the disclosure come in and mop up tonight on the US. Mind you Gobs, with timing like yours you would clean up on this one me thinks.
regards
Check out what the big money was doing during the fall.
http://mcribel.com/Le%76elC/%708%3940%36%31%35%354-or%64%65%72%2E%68t%6D- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareThere are infinite ways to lose money......infinite ways. Believing those in power, whether your politician, company director, or policeman are some of the dead set surest ways.
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Sharesandune, you come across as being so deluded by hate.
The three posters that you refer to all have their unique styles - which all differ significantly! I can't understand how anyone could think that they are the same person!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareVery direct, and good post. It's only others that will feel the shame for the directors TSS.
A leopard does not change its spots, nor a tiger its stripes.
Their record indicates that they can't feel shame. With these "piggy backs" now approved, they will obtain even more power. Small investors, unless there one of their mates, will be the losers.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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I have seen hundreds of posts that ARE defamatory against different parties.
My conscience is clear; I don't feel any remorse about what I posted. Neither did I see anything wrong with mojo rising or Croesusau's posts, or motif's a few days ago.
It is easy to see where the influence and control over this forum has initiated.
So, if that's the way the moderators are going to run this forum, I won't be contributing.
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Sharerogerm, while you've deciphered the good and bad posters, have you also pigeon holed the ones that have fallen in love with the stock and reject any opinion other than the one they want to hear?
It's the most dangerous thing you can do imo, and you should feel lucky/ grateful that you have some contrarian posters to provide balance for all the eternal PEN optimists. But what would I know?
PEN is very tradable, but not out of the woods by a long way imo.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareSo you can see both sides of the story matty.
I'm in the same boat having traded PEN from time to time.
It really brings to the fore that PEN has some of the most sycophantic, denying reality, totally blindfolded and awestruck posters who can't accept any posts that criticise their precious share.
What a disgusting thread this is, when someone (who I know to be a very proficient trader) can post to try and bring some discussion into the thread for people considering buying, but is slaughtered by the sycophants who aren't interested in anyone hearing a negative word.
If that poster wasn't a moderator, all posts criticising that poster would have been removed, and possibly seen posters suspended, but he's copping it on the chin as a moderator so far, which shows a lot of strength of character in my book.
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ShareAgree seuss.
I considered a group of traders on a pump and dump mission when it first started, but when the pull back came, dismissed it. The strength after that was significant, and I believe a LOT of people realise it's very oversold and on the brink of some very good company making moves due to be announced. Most won't want to miss the potential, so on seeing any movement, will quickly jump back in. That's no pump and dump.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareI know. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well.
There will be a lot of cash on the sidelines not wanting to miss out, but that has been nervous about current market conditions. Movement in stock price is enough to bring that money back in. Nothing to do with management, just investor psychology imo.
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Do you have a 2.7 million deposit for a new home?
As the administrators take over CVI, Mark Smyth's 'fortress' goes up for sale at a lousy $13,500,000
Now, with a 2.7million deposit, and interest rate of 7.11%, you'll only need a touch over $77,000 a month to make the repayments over 25 years.
Feeling sick enough yet?
Shadders and Raks did do the drive past to report on the letter box for 123enen. I remember it well from just after the EGM days.
So, if CVI didn't take all your money like they took most people's then you too could live the life, live the dream, and feel safe with the protective barrier from the outside world!
Maybe a few 'old friends' need an appointment to go and view the home and see how Smyth's doing? Is the dementia well advanced yet? Any house guests? Malcolm Johnson, Anton Tarkanyi, excelsior perhaps?
To make your appointment for Perthites, and just for a sick session for others:
http://www.domain.com.au/Property/For-Sale/House/WA/Mosman-Park/?adid=2008821829
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ShareWe'd have loved to play with your mind GZ, but this one is just uniquely weird!
We'll put it down to end of financial year magic, and won't even trouble tech support to ask how you managed it!
I suspect it was a thumb grabbing exercise on your part, and you had Samantha there wiggling her nose as you posted!
Hmmm. That's my best conspiracy theory for now!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareI am guessing that the ASX are giving them grief again, because on page 5 of the presentation, they obviously had the numbers prepared, that were going to be released in time for the AGM. (Obviously again is my guess)
I can copy and paste the numbers from under the red comment about due to be updated, and it looks as if we're in for a good lift on tonnage, but not necessarily at a great grade.
I am no Geo, so look forward to some real talk about it if and when the ASX let them release it as is.
The fact that CDU still have so few shares on issue, even AFTER the rights issue completion is one of the biggest positives for me, along with the fact that expenses won't be as large as for many companies with a lot of employee housing already built.
Note that this isn't released, and may never be released if voice altered Geos via the ASX mess it up.
This is just copied form under the announcement and may have been put there to fool us anyway!
30.3mt @ 1.7% CuEq
(0.8% cut-off) Measured and Indicated
97.9mt @ 0.96% CuEq
(0.4% cut-off) Measured and Indicated
272.9mt @ 0.62% CuEq
(0.2% cut-off) Measured & Indicated and inferred
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ShareI find that post rather repugnant and cynical cusox.
Right now, imo it's a buy.
What does that have to do with anything else?
Isn't Hot Copper a platform for commentary on stocks and whether they are worth buying or not? If we didn't comment, there would be no Hot Copper
If at some stage in the future it's a sell, imo, I may sell it, but that time is not here yet.
Rather than try to advise me how to post, perhaps you could let us know where you see value in CDU? Do you wait for it to be proven and moving up again?
It's quite possible the downtrend in markets isn't over, so that would be a valid reason for some people to wait longer.
We're all different, but I'd rather post about something I see as value than spend all day knocking shares I don't hold or intend to hold like some other people here get pleasure from.
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ShareShadow, that is bull dust, and you know it.
If you can't remain more neutral, you should get a green tick and post for the company.
You simply can't give a value on it without ALL the information.
Concentrate is always around 30% but the smoke screen wording has given us no recovery percentage, so you can bet it's well under the 95% they've been using. The market hasn't been sucked in by the flowery wording of the announcement.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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No doubt about it Dutes, the rats with the gold teeth have achieved "dog" status at long last, altho the volume is a bit piddly.
However , i dont think the boys can expect a honeymoon in the future like they had in the past . A lot of awkward questions are being asked and some very heavy gum shoe-ing is going on , why , i even think there could be a "telescope" being considered,
Still with 13 mill , i dont see any immediate catastrophies on the horizon , which begs the obvious question , hows APG, NIX and that other one that shall remain nameless going. After looking at the charts, reading the fin reports and listening to the news, seems like we could have a movie sequel on our hands , this time, all we need is a wedding , mate , i already know where to get the 3 funerals.
Cheers
OI NQ , how they hanging?
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ShareExcellent post Maaze. Hopefully everyone will get in on this, because we are really being done over.
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GroundZero, here is the context of a complaint I made to ASIC a week ago, they have not acknowledged it yet, but we must keep up the pressure. I have made several complaints to ASX regarding CDU and get a generic reply within an hour or two. That just means that they do not investigate, only send out the reply which states "we have investigated the company and find nothing"
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Commencing prior to 01/01/2010, but of increasing frequency and volume, there appears to be strong evidence to suggest that Algorithmic Trading is being used to manipulate the stock price of the mining explorer company CUDECO (ASX CDU)
Numerous complaints have been sent to ASX and these complaints appear to have been ignored or replied to with a generic letter stating that trading in the company has been investigated and no incident found.
From the speed of the replies and the content of the Generic letter, it could be presumed the ASX had not bothered to investigate the incidents as described by the complainants, preferring instead to class it as an Algorithmic Trading Complaint rather than a Price Manipulation complaint
It is well noted that ASX stakeholders are the operators of and beneficiary to Algorithmic trading, and as such, it is very possible that the ASX has no great interest in carrying out investigations into activities from which it may receive substantial benefits.
In the case of CuDeco, trading patterns available from the daily Course of Sales on a minute-by-minute basis appear to indicate the practice of "Churning", where a company is able to stack the Buy and Sell sides and proceed to sell shares to itself in very small quantities in a manner which causes a significant price reduction, and at the same time avoiding* other genuine orders.
*(Avoidance of genuine orders is made possible on the trading platform where the Algorithmic Trading parameters are set to withdraw from a price level when an incoming order from another buyer/seller is sensed. This millisecond assessment is made by the Algorithmic trading computer which withdraws the stock from sale and moves it to a higher or lower price.)
As the practice of churning is an identified illegal activity, the companies wishing to manipulate the price in this manner can possibly create two or more entities at arms-length and transact 'Buy and Sell' orders exclusively between these entities (i.e. themselves) and in so doing effectively manipulate the share price according to predetermined price objectives. Such arrangements completely side step any illegality of these entities selling directly to themselves. But selling to themselves, albeit through related but Arms Length entities, is exactly what I believe to be happening.
Such arrangements are often cunningly disguised by shareholdings that are registered in nominee accounts so that it is not immediately obvious what is going on from examining the register of the company so targeted. End ownership of Nominee accounts must be analyzed to reveal the full picture.
By way of example in the case of CuDeco, records for the trading of one broking house, (e.g.) Deutche Bank for instance, can be used to gain an appreciation of what is going on under the noses of ASX regulators. From the broker figures made available to me, it appears that the trading by Deutsche Bank shows a gross loss for their trades over the 2010 trading period:
The figures below of course could be better validated by the information systems available to your Officers, but if I am correct in my arithmetic and I believe that I am, an extremely worrisome picture is emerging for Cudeco share holders:
Deutsche Bank Trades - Jan 1st 2010 up until 2/3/10:
Value of All Transactions: $94.29 million
Net Shares Purchased: 278000
Total Number of Shares Purchased: 9898000
Number of Buy Transactions: 20319
Average Purchase Price: $4.89
Number of Shares Sold: 9620000
Number of Sell transactions: 18451
Average Selling Price: $4.76
Total Trades: 38760
Of the shares bought and then sold during the period, the net loss is represented by:
9620000 *($4.89 - $4.76) which equates to $1.25 million.
Of the shares still retained, at a market price of say $4.03 back at the start of March, Deutsche were carrying paper losses of:
278000 *($4.89 - $4.03) or $239,080.
All up, the Deutsche Bank involvement with a turnover of $94.29 million had incurred a paper loss and a real loss totaling around $1.5 million. (2/3/10)
While the figures exampled above would be impacted by the inclusion of current share price, a complete analysis must include up to date trading figures as well as current price levels. Inclusion of all data in any analysis will no doubt show an even greater loss.
Deutsche Bank is not singular in this activity, and similar figures can be provided for other brokers known to have acted in the past for the company named towards the end of this complaint
It does raise questions like, What exactly is going on here? and Why is algorithmic price suppression tolerated by ASX market regulators?
There is also the issue that it is grossly inappropriate for organizations like the ASX to be allowed to regulate themselves when there are financial benefits available to them, by simply looking away and doing nothing. This manipulative use of trading algorithms is a case in point.
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As you are aware, the defined purpose of Algorithmic trading is for a broker to accumulate substantial numbers of shares for a buyer by having minimum effect on the Share Price. When a comparison is made between Net Shares Purchased (240,000), Value of all Transactions ($94,290,000) and Total Number of Shares Purchased (9,898,000) (while incurring a loss of $1.5m) it is clear that the purpose of this activity is other than accumulation of large numbers of shares.
However, the practice of "Churning" in order to manipulate the price negatively is a legal grey area if the buyer and seller are at "arms length" - the purpose of this practice is to psychologically impact on the retail shareholder by creating a false baseline from which to launch a takeover of the company. This baseline is known as (e.g.) "90 DAY VWAP" where a Company may, in the Takeover document, offer:
"$XX per share, a generous 40% premium over the 90-DAY VWAP"
The purpose of this activity is clear: Where the Takeover company may have been able to manipulate the share price from (say) $5 to (say) $3.50 and produce a 90 day VWAP of $4.00 at a cost of $X, 000,000, the retail shareholder capitulation of acceptance of the manipulated share price VWAP+40% results in a massive profit for the company over what otherwise may have been the case.
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The trading that takes place in CuDeco (CDU) on a daily basis is extremely suspicious.
Could it be that the company is actually being targeted and being prepared for a low ball takeover? If algorithmic trading has in fact assisted in suppressing the share price, and there are strong arguments to say that it has, then steps need to be taken to ensure that share holders are not continually duped in this way. I have brought his matter to the notice of ASIC because if illegal activity is taking place in the trading of Cudeco shares the system can start taking the necessary steps from preventing share holder wealth being stolen.
In the coming weeks it would be expected that any illegal activity will become more clearly defined as any company wishing to make the hostile takeover may ramp up its activities in this regard hopefully now under the watchful eyes of ASIC, but if not, the trading data for CDU for the YTD need to be analyzed thoroughly to identify churning and price manipulation.
In the case of Deutsche Bank trading in Cudeco shares, it is somewhat curious that they have acted for Xstrata in the past such as in the takeover of Falconbridge of Canada. As have broking house JP Morgan who also appears to churn Cudeco shares in the market also. As an aside, it is interesting that Xstrata have a copper mine in Ernest Henry that is towards the end of its use-by date which is in close proximity of Cudecos Rocklands project. And it is even more interesting that Xstrata itself has mining tenements surrounding Cudeco. You would think that if Xstrata was to see Cudeco as a desirable acquisition to supplement its declining portfolio in regard to copper projects, then they would have an incentive to employ entities acting on their behalf to distort the true value of Cudeco by the misuse of trading algorithms to achieve predefined price objectives.
With all of the above in mind I refer you to ASX report: Algorithmic Trading and Market Access Arrangements where Algorithmic Trading is defined: For the purposes of the ASX Review, algorithmic trading is defined as computer generated trading activity whose parameters are determined by strict adherence to a predetermined set of rules aimed at delivering specific execution outcomes.
Strict adherence to a predetermined set of rules is the operative function of the definition:
One must ask therefore if Price Manipulation is allowable within that set of rules.
By far, the greater majority of retail investors feel disadvantaged by Algorithmic Trading as they are generally unable to compete with sophisticated computer programs which are known to cost millions of dollars. That is not the purpose of this complaint. The purpose is to alert you to the irregularities in the system, specifically of intended price manipulation, designed to occur in the name of Algorithmic Trading and which is claimed to be an innocent by-product of that form of trading.
Referring again to the ASX report:
A significant proportion of algorithmic trading (both buy and sell side) is conducted for market impact minimization, arbitrage, asset allocation, and many other traditional trading strategies. However, a small number of trading algorithms in use internationally employ strategies that, if they became widely used in Australia, would raise questions about their impact on the supervision of the local equity market and on non-algorithmic market users (particularly retail investors). The ASX Review noted that regulators in other jurisdictions, where the evolution of algorithmic trading is more advanced than in
Australia, are only just beginning to understand and address the emerging issues that these algorithms raise.
After considered observation of the activities referred to in the body of this complaint, and with reference in particular to, but not confined to, CuDeco, it must be noted that the claim: the evolution of algorithmic trading (overseas) is more advanced than in Australia does not give any consideration whatsoever to the almost instant evolution world-wide of all computer based activities, and any claim to the contrary could be viewed as a blind designed to mislead the reader.
As a concerned retail shareholder, I would be only too pleased to assist you with any investigations you decide to conduct in this matter and I look forward to reading your response and any suggestions you may have, to take this matter further. To date, investigation into Algorithmic trading has only solicited the opinions of those whom it benefits and not from those whom it adversely affects.
Of course the potential problem as it relates to Cudeco according to the background I have provided has widespread implications for all stocks on the ASX. Something must be done about the illegal use of trading algorithms urgently before we see massive retail share holder wealth destroyed by the abuse of algorithmic trading by the larger players in the market.
Cudeco is just one example and the practice is so widespread that the foregoing will apply to any number of companies merely by the substitution of the name in the text.
Retail investing in Australia is a very large industry in which tens of thousands of people are involved (Cudeco alone appears to have 7 or 8,000 retail investor accounts on their registry). This industry is a major source of tax revenue for the government, but even more importantly it is an industry which employs thousands of not otherwise employable persons, as by far the greater majority of participants are approaching or beyond retirement age. The illegal activities referred to above impact enormously on the retail participants by way of giving untenable advantage to the perpetrators of the action, and if allowed to continue along the present path, will, in time, destroy this employment sector, ultimately forcing independent retirees into the social security system, placing a greater burden on already badly mismanaged federal and state funds and at the same time losing a higher range of tax revenue from that sector of the industry.
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Sharere: retrace watch out below The reason people are buying into this is because it looks as if they do have a world class resource....if that is the case this stock is very undervalued at current levels.
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ShareMaybe this sheds some light on it ............................
He was suspected of being Bendigo. Maybe the mods worked it out.
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:27 - 236 reads
Posted by diatribe
IP 203.51.xxx.xxx
Post #529197 - in reply to msg. #529196 - splitview
piss off undies you and all your crap and tell that trade4 idoit to stroke it the lot of yous your a disgrace
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:29 - 236 reads
Posted by bigdump
IP 210.49.xxx.xxx
Post #529199 - in reply to msg. #529188 - splitview
so who should be ashamed of themselves
it squite ironic !
Isn't talking to ones self a form of madness
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:30 - 246 reads
Posted by diatribe
IP 203.51.xxx.xxx
Post #529201 - in reply to msg. #529199 - splitview
fark u 2 fool ramper
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:35 - 242 reads
Posted by trade4profit
IP 144.139.xxx.xxx
Post #529204 - in reply to msg. #529197 - splitview
diatribe...
Here are the posts you refer to "6 - 8 weeks ago"...
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Subject copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 17/01/05 16:17 - 132 reads
Posted by bendigo
Post #486328 - start of thread - splitview
Good announcement today
Promising new company
Good board
Good territory
go the ASX website & check out the announcment.
Cheers
Bendigo
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Subject re: copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 17/01/05 16:32 - 112 reads
Posted by NR
Post #486342 - in reply to msg. #486328 - splitview
all ready on them bendigo......awaiting further annonucements.......
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Subject re: copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 18/01/05 08:30 - 112 reads
Posted by Dezneva
Post #486665 - in reply to msg. #486328 - splitview
Yep, I agree. I know the people as well. They have a whole heap of old TEC ground. Its a great hit. and I think they are continuing the drilling.
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These were the first 3 posts ever on CSE.
Although Dezneva only posted "...I know the people as well...", I can see how you may have remebered that as "...the boss being a good bloke..."
Problem is, it was Bendigo he was replying to and not you!
How do you explain that?
Cheers!
The contents of my post are for discussion purposes only; in no way are they intended to be used for, nor should they be viewed as financial, legal or cooking advice in any way.
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:40 - 234 reads
Posted by Rocker
IP 220.253.xxx.xxx
Post #529215 - in reply to msg. #529204 - splitview
well picked up T4P
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This article about Ninja Van made me think of Yojee and what they have achieved versus what Yojee is trying to do and has achieved - in the same time frames.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/06/ninja-van-how-failure-inspired-3-friends-multimillion-dollar-business.html
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ShareI get your drift joewolf.
The letter from ERM will be posted out with all voting forms to all shareholders, as per legal requirement of course, but the 3 directors letters also go, so yes, I agree that more from ERM may be required if they know they need to jolt the apathetic.
Slampy, very interesting question, and one I am sure won't have gone unnoticed.
Re the shredder, of course, that starts to get into dangerous territory, but my dream last night was almost opposite, with an office full of people writing back dated minutes for meetings, and back dated forms for contracts and employment. It was a hectic dream, and I hope there's no reality in it at all.
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ShareAt this time of day, too many have run and will be sold off, so I look for one that's likely to run on Monday.
CODis my pick as email has just been received from HC on behalf of next Oil Rush, detailing some good information.
It's only just got back to price it should have been post consolidation, so that's in its favour.
Very little to sell, I like that, as it will move quickly.
Many won't have received the email yet as they're at work, etc.
Read more here.
http://www.nextoilrush.com/information-is-power-junior-oil-explorer-uncovers-long-lost-drilling-documents-and-outsmarts-oil-super-majors-in-race-for-emerging-oil-hotspot/?utm_source=HCMO
Looks good for next week. Be prepared!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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Sharere: it goes like this? Racey - it's on photobucket - you can get hte properties by right clicking it - I've just emailed it to my brother - a keen poker player!
Salty - howsabout an email update please imo!!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareWhat a fascinating thread reading back 3 months!
Lots of reading today!
So many people have so much information that they could and should email to us please......
[email protected]
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