re: leaping - wish we had done as well in singapor
Leaping,
I am sure you can understand that I will never divulge the details of my military service on this forum. There are many reasons for this:
1. People will only use it against me in the future (I would not rule you out of this) 2. There are a number of mentally deranged characters here, and heaven knows what they might do if they found out some specific detail. 3. It is inappropriate as I am still involved with the ADF, in one way or another.
That said, I can tell you that I joined the military when I was 17, obviously as a volunteer. I won’t tell you which service, for the reasons stated above. I was a little brighter than the pack, so I had the privilege of being accepted as an Officer. I still hold the Queens Commission in fact. I spent 12 years in the permanent military, and was involved in a couple of peacekeeping operations to our north. I was at the ‘sharp-end’ if you like, and I have seen shots fired, but like most Australian servicemen I have never been in a full-blown war.
You talked about your uncles in WWII and the brutality of the Japanese etc. Well we have something in common. I think you are a little older than me, so your ‘uncles’ probably equate to my ‘grand-uncles’…
On my father’s side, I had 4 grand-uncles (now dead) who joined the army at the commencement of WWII. They fought in Greece, Crete, Egypt, Syria…other places…they were in separate battalions within two main infantry divisions. They were all in the infantry, and miraculously they all survived the war. They got back from the Middle East around 1942, only to be thrown back into jungle-warfare to our north up until the end. They were all good Catholic farm boys, you know, the type that have always been there first - lining up first to fight Australia’s wars. The 5th boy (my grandfather) was a policeman when WWII broke out, so he was spared the trouble.
My maternal grandfather was an officer in the first Pioneer Infantry Battalion that set foot on the beach at Balikpapan (Borneo) to fight the Japanese. He saw a lot of fighting; at the end of the war was responsible for running some of the Japanese POW camps. I can tell you he got some real pay-back for their brutality, although he never said such directly to me (I was a kid).
The one salient, over-riding thing I got from all these men (I was 12 when the last of them died) was that ‘War’ was a second-rate, disreputable, abhorrent, disgusting activity that should be avoided at ALL costs.
Not one of those men EVER wanted to talk about it, Leaping. I don’t know which diggers you talk to, but the ones I know and knew didn’t want anything to do with war.
The people that crap on about it are either liars about what they did, or regarded as fukwits by the ones who did the real fighting. I lost my grandfather when I was 12 due to complications arising from his service.
I have marched on ANZAC day with the diggers many, many times. I felt unworthy most of the time. But the same thing applies when you sit down to have a beer with these old fellas at the end of the march. They hate war. Sure, the stories are so interesting and it’s all ‘daring-do’, but when you ask them what they really thought about the whole thing, it’s the same. War is to be avoided at all costs. Un-necessary wars should not be fought.
Nowadays, imho, you need a damned good reason to go to war. The great bloodbath of World War I was supposed to be the turning point for modern people. After that horror, people wanted nothing to do with war. For Australia, WWI was an unnecessary slaughter which resulted 60,000 men dead, many more permanently injured. The damage done to families; the psychological damage to soldiers was enormous, it lasted well into the next two decades. Economically, WWI set this country back a long way.
Historians books wrote a patriotic, militaristic white-wash over the truth about the aftermath of WW I in Australia. Did you know that ANZAC day was abolished during the 1920’s? Did you know that the diggers couldn’t give a fuk about the RSL – it was only pushed forward by the government as a means of controlling the unruly, unemployed soldiers returning from the War? Do you know how many diggers flatly refused to march on ANZAC day? Wanted nothing to do with it? Do you know how many diggers turned to the Communist Party? A massive number. Did you know that the RSL was a complete non-entity during the inter-war years, and was only revived around 1937, with the rise of militarism in most of the Western countries? WHY? Because nobody wanted to know about war. Nobody wanted to know about the RSL – mostly the diggers. Full stop. My grandfather just thought ANZAC day was another reason to get pissed with his old friends. That’s all. He knew that even the invasion of Borneo was being touted as unnecessary at the time, and later on.
Personally, I joined the ADF to protect Australia. I also believe the same thing as those diggers believe - war must be fought only if it is necessary. I do not consider the invasion of Iraq to be necessary, in a general sense for world security, nor do I consider it necessary to protect Australia. In fact the opposite is true. Saddam left there would have been more in our interest. In contrast, I consider the prosecution of the war against the Japanese to our north in WWII to be entirely necessary. However, I don’t believe WW I, nor the European and Middle east theatres in WWII necessary to this country either.
Since I left the full-time forces, Leaping, I studied further, and I essentially began to believe what I suspected (and really knew) all along. All wars are fought predominantly for economic reasons. Once you understand, and embrace this, you can see so much more clearly.
You may be derisory and snide about Marx, Leaping, but Marx did have one thing completely right. Capitalism, let alone the rest, means wars. It is the struggle to preserve and create capital, which drives the wealthy to start fights. Iraq is the latest perfect example.
Deep down I think you understand this Leaping. If you don’t, well there is little hope for you now. I don’t think you really believe all this ‘War on Terror’ Islamic Evil stuff to be as malignant and absolute as ‘putsch’ wants you to believe. Most of it was brought upon America, by America, through their foreign policy fuk ups in the ME in the recent decades. Saddam was the latest fuk up.
And a lot of it is made up, you know, just to put patriotic people like you on-side for another one of those capitalist resource grabbing wars - mate. Tired old words but true. It is all engineered to get your fighting, militarist streak fired up. It is meant to evoke all of that proud family war history, the hatred of the Japanese; it gets right to your ancient ‘us versus them’ instincts. They have succeeded in a big way with you mate. You are their fair-haired - sit right up the front - star student.
I hope you get where I’m coming from. You will note that I never have a go at Yak for what he did in Vietnam? (I assume it is true). That is because there is a certain un-written bond between people who have served in the military. However, I find Yaks opinions to be disgusting, abhorrent, and totally un-Australian. I would never call Yak an Australian until he changes his ways.
