@picastoc - I love the connection you make: J and P - I am no longer in touch - but do check out other threads! Interesting lady, but intense (I have intense daughters, that's enough) - and she felt uncomfortable on this thread. I come across her often relevant comments on other threads, usually give an uptick. This morning I listened to a talk on the gardens of Melbourne on Radio National - really enjoyed it - I have been to your botanical garden many years ago - it is beautiful!! X Tau