Hence, in the mind and plans of the God and Father, the Jesus to be was in effect, pre-slain in this plan = before Abraham was even thought of = Before Abraham I am = I was, according to the Inter.
"Please provide Bible verses to show that Jesus was only in the mind and plans of God at the beginning."
Rev 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.1. Was he slain back then = no = a plan regarding a future Jesus as he is ref as the Lamb of God in the NT.
2. Was this plan before Abraham was born = yes = before Abraham I am.
The Man Jesus in the here and now of the times, is being spoken of in the following.
Col 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn (of) all creation.
1. The 1st Adam was in the image, hence the 2nd was.
2. We know he was only born from Mary, therefore this firstborn of creation has to be in the mind and plans of God, right where ALL our creations begin, for all that we do.
In the exact same context, he is referred to as the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14, the mystery hid IN God Eph 3:9 = before Abraham was, I am.
Most say the following seed of the woman is referring to Jesus;
Gen 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
1. Hence before Abraham was born, I am.
And I could go on.
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"He was with God in the beginning."
Only as a plan to be, in the mind of God, which the OT is full of these plans, John wrote his Book for the purposes of showing you that Jesus is the Son of God and that HE ONLY come about as a "SON" from Mary, as the Bible clearly shows.
That Son was NOT with God in the beginning.
John does not introduce a pre-existing Jesus.
The Only word available from the definition of the Greek word where you have "He", is "This;" and this is certainly Not speaking of another person being with "The God" in 1:1.
Where you have the word "with", in the order of preference, the definition options there are as follows -> to, toward, with.
If one lines up the overall various definitions of these words, again it becomes very clear that it is Not speaking of another person being with "The God" in 1:1, 2, it IS a logos/plan in 1:1b and referenced again in 1:2.
In 1 John 1:1-2, this 1:1b is referred to as "the word of life" that was to, toward, with the Father = In him (John 1:4)
Later it became the scriptures, which they heard, handled, saw etc, as Jesus says, you search the scriptures, for in them you think you have life and they are those that speak of me = The FUTURE Jesus.
Paul refers to the scriptures as 'the word of life' - Phil 2:16 -18.
Verse 1:3 in no way can be separated from 1 & 2 and 1:3 smacks it right in your face, that as well as the God in 1 & 2, there must have been a logos/plan there and part of that is clearly shown to have been expressed out of God by 1:3 = Gens creation, and God said and God said and NOT Jesus said, which 1:3 would DEMAND, if you insist Jesus is the Word.
Isa 44:24, Psa 33:6,9 = Yehowah alone and by himself created all things.
John 1:14 - And the Word Man (existing - Luke) became = on the scene and dwelt.
It does NOT say - And the Word became man = BIG difference.
1:14 is not talking about when Jesus become flesh, the likes of Luke does that, he was made by 'the word' and power of God there.
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At least you didn't link the "I am" to the OT I AM, LOL."Actually, I did as Abraham was an OT character."
You didn't do it in the created context that most said Christians do it in.
God says to Moses - Tell them I AM sent you -> they say Jesus's words "I am" with the Abraham matter, is Jesus claiming/confirming to be the I AM that I just mentioned = rubbish.
I am is -> I am or I was, and the context and meaning of that, is as I have outlined, which the Bible on the whole, demands.
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"The verse did not say in the beginning He was in the plans of God,"
I doesn't mention "He" either.
God's plan, wisdom, purpose was/is the logos.
God's expression of himself, later come through Jesus, hence Jesus expressing God's words, became the express image of God's Person - Word, The Word Heb 1:3 KJV, John 14:10
Jesus became the vessel (Temple) for God's message.
Like the forerunner -> Ex 40:34 - Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of Yehowah filled the tabernacle.
John 1:14 - And the Word man (existing) became (on the scene) and dwelt in us and we beheld the glory of it (Him), glory as only begotten by the side of the Father, full of grace and truth. = words.
And the Spirit descend upon him like a Dove and he was then sent into the world - ex John 17:18.
Did God ever become the Tent/Temples (Jesus) that he dwelt in hmmmmm, nup.
John 17:22 - And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
(Glory being the word).
John 17:8, 17:17 your word is truth..........
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"it is clear that Scripture has a pre-existent Jesus."
From what I've seen thus far from you, that is Not the case, have you got more or something better, as I'm all eyes and ears, so to speak?
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