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zbusc

7,681 Posts.

1

08/08/24

16:57

Post #: 75129681
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Originally posted by wotsup: ↑

NO gottcha or dunks here mate, I hope you can swim as the BIBLE is about to dunk you with the WHOLE truths that you left off.

WHOLE truths;

First up, can you show me verses where before the cross, that show Jesus went to and fro from earth to heaven?????????????????????????

John 3:12 - If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?Now then, have you got the highlight, locked and loaded, BECAUSE Jesus is Now going to describe a heavenly example which is a PROPHESY that is soon to follow.

3:13 - No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven,that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Jesus died and rose and said, do not touch me as I have not yet ascended to the Father.
In a short space of time, he obviously went up and down and it was now OK to touch him.
Up -> Down, just as his heavenly message shows.

Are you doubting that it's a prophesy, well,............ lets us let Jesus confirm that yet again.
3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,More confirmation that it's a prophesy -> "who is in heaven." = he wasn't in heaven when speaking to them, this is referring to him going back after his 40 days and now at the RHS of the Father -> in heaven.

Pretty Simple eh zbusc and unquestionable.
My advice, it is Not a good idea to translate a verse in your mind, by the first glance, you need to think deeper.
----------------
John 6:38 - For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

How does the Bible show us that he came down from heaven.
John 16:27, 28 - for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Furthermore, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

Sent into the world, after his Baptism - ex - John 17:18

What does Jesus mean by "came forth";
Isa 55:10, 11 - For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, And do not return there, But water the earth, And make it bring forth and bud, That it may give seed to the sower And bread to the eater,
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosperin the thing for which I sent it.

Lo - Behold, the word of Yehowah comes forth to the Angel and forth from the Angel from heaven and the Child was born was born.
Because it was the word and power that came down from heaven and made Jesus, he can naturally say he came down from heaven, forth from the mouth of the God and Father.
And because the heavenly words and power made him, he is heavenly, not made of dust, earthly.
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Col 1:15, 16 - He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn all creation,
because in him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whetherthey be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him:

Image -> as was the 1st Adam in the image of God."the firstborn all creation, because" -> all the things following from "because" were created through, on account of, by reason of him, the firstborn of creation in the mind of God, for the one to be in the future, born from Mary.
All your creations begin in you, hence in the very same context, the Jesus to be is the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14.

Isa 44:24 - Thus saith Yehowah, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I Yehowah that maketh allthings; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;That verse and many more, demand the following meaning of the word "through"
dia: through, on account of, because of
Original Word:διά
Part of Speech:Preposition
Transliteration:dia
Phonetic Spelling:(dee-ah')
Definition:through, on account of, because of
Usage:(a) gen: through, throughout, by the instrumentality of, (b) acc: through, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, because of. ->the future one to be, born from Mary.THEN -> Col 1:18 - And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that in all things He may have the preeminence.
So now he physically, literally holds preeminence, instead of a plan to be as per the inner beginning of God's creations, as per John 1:1, 2.
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I'm seeing a few Gottcha moments there zbusc.
You need to learn how to get a peek over the other side of the fence, there is usually Two sides to a story, this one is backed by the Bible and Not ones creative imaginations.
All though, 2 Thes 2:11 may or likely, tell you otherwise.

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Gotcha again pal slam dunk neutered and gagged.
List the verses where Paul teaches that correct understanding of GREAT tribulation & Christ pre-exist is required for a believer to be justified.
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