do these gods exist?, page-170

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    Yes oxytocin - interesting stuff.


    akgo01.

    You ask if it is logically possible for a super-being creator to exist. If one wants to believe so, then one can adopt one of the existing religions or invent their own. However there is no proof of such an existence and you query whether such a super-being can stand the test of logic. Religionists have numerous “hypothesis” to say why they believe such a being exists. It can not be feasible to assess the logic of every single “hypothesis” possible here on this forum. For obvious reasons, religionists tend to assess none of them. So let’s just take one of them.


    From Manny1970 (above):

    “The probability of life springing into existence due to complete randomness is infinitesimally smaller than due to a designer/creator. This is universally acknowledged.”


    This improbability “hypothesis” is often quoted by religionists, and is all over the forums.

    I’ll leave the “life springing into existence” part alone except to say it is wrong. Life is first recorded as single celled organisms about 3.5 billion years ago. Arguing science with Religionists is futile, because they reject science, so I’ll take the second aspect - the mathematical issue of improbability of a random (but in part ordered) universe versus a creator.

    If we take the idea of design and creation from an anthropomorphic viewpoint, then as humans, nothing we design and create is more complex than us. For example the latest laptop computer is designed and created as a sum total of all relevant science, technology and endless human lifetimes of experience up to the point of manufacture of the computer. No single Homo Sapien in isolation would ever be able to instantly create a computer from nothing. If any entity could do such a thing it would be need to be extremely complex – much more so than us.

    The universe is extremely complex, so the creator of the universe would need to be omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. Just as the religionists say. But in order to have those characteristics, the creator would have to be inordinately more complex than the universe it creates. Therefore following the probability due to complexity logic (as touted by Religionists), the probability of the creator to exist is far less than that for the universe. Furthermore if we are fixated on the idea of everything having a creator then we have the issue of what could possibly create such a vastly complex super-being that could create a universe?

    It’s interesting to note that Manny1970 when stating his flawed improbability “hypothesis”, follows it up with “this is universally acknowledged”. These types of statements used by Religionists to justify such a “hypothesis” are symptomatic of brainwashing, and are used in an attempt to validate “hypotheses” and to dare people not to challenge them.
 
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