There are properties in Melbourne that are positive geared even if you borrow the whole lot, including stamp duty. It's just a matter of looking and not having your head in the sand as you said. Why would anyone buy something returning 4% without taking out goings out. I suppose that's why many on HC only see doom and gloom but are missing oportunities. These are not commercial either. 50 % drop Matt your have been screaming it for that long your starting to sound like a broken record that will never eventuate how boring. One is starting to wonder who has therenhead in the sand.