banjar, your following comment could be changed also, "Dealing in issues that are black or white are easy, it takes more than it appears many have to deal with areas of grey.", maybe delete 'grey' and add 'green' (representing modern true left)- I'm more confused when 'green' comes in than 'grey', give me a 'grey' argument anyday. As much as you say your comments are, the only 'coherent' (a couple of other similar words also) entries in this thread, why do some (probably most) see them otherwise?