re: howard backs bush for nobel peace pr
Costic, i think you deserve JB an apology, pulling stats out of your bum or off the back of a chewing gum wrapper isnt good research:
Lets see how you score.
I'll make it easy for you four-eyes. Dispute this.
18,000 killed in the only big battle the yanks fought by themselves. .
**** 126,000 killed which is damned sight more than the 50 k you presented then whittled down to 18,000.****
The rest under command of the Poms.
*****Dont forget the French FG . although a few thousand Yanks were attached to Australian troops at Hamel to get them battle seasoned. As you will see, it wasnt a matter of choice but a matter of survival for the French and British and the possible loss of the war that the distribution of the US army took place. In this regard, Pershing wasnt far removed from Australias General Monash views ( he was a Jew, BTW...lol) as they both didnt like the way the European Armies sacrified their troops fighting a industrialised war with 18th century tactics and leadership. ie..officers created by birthright , not by ability...
General Pershing's two major problems, it appeared from his memoirs, were combating the strenuous efforts of the British and French to have the American troops incorporated in their own armies instead of being used to form a separate military force, and obtaining from the General Staff in Washington, which, he felt, was handicapped by red tape and lack of vision, the immense shipments of men and supplies which the war program demanded.
His efforts to build up a distinct American army brought him into frequent clashes with the allied military and political leaders, but he stood his ground, arguing that an independent American force would better serve the allied cause, as well as insisting on the formation of an army for the sake of America's own pride. So strong was the resentment against Pershing's firmness, however, that efforts were even made by allied leaders to have him removed. Throughout the war General Pershing had the full support of both President Wilson and Secretary Baker.
A truce came in this controversy in March, 1918, however, when the Germans overwhelmed the British Fifth Army and threatened to cut through between the British and French armies, with a strong possibility of the war ending in defeat for the Allies. In this emergency General Pershing performed one of the most dramatic acts of his entire career. Laying aside for the time being his efforts to build up a separate American force, he went to Marshal Foch's headquarters and put at his disposal the entire American command in France, to be used as Foch saw fit.
"I have come to tell you," said General Pershing, "that the American people would consider it a great honor for our troops to be engaged in the present battle; I ask you for this in their name and my own.
4 months later:
Foch Agrees to Separate Army
Late in July, when American divisions were helping force the Germans back, Foch agreed with Pershing that the time had come to assemble the scattered American forces then serving with the French and British into an independent army under General Pershing's own command. Preparations were begun for the first American offensive, to be carried out early in September and to consist of the reduction of the St. Mihiel salient.
The army was formed, elaborate movements of men and supplies were put under way, and the date of the attack was set for Sept. 12. And once again there flared up the issue of the independence of the American forces. On Aug. 30, the day Pershing took command of the St. Mihiel sector, Foch went to his headquarters and proposed a change in plans involving the limiting of the St. Mihiel operation and the withdrawal of several American divisions and their incorporation in the French Army in the Meuse-Argonne.
General Pershing refused to hear of a splitting up of his forces, and Foch at length demanded:
"Do you wish to go to battle?"
"Most assuredly," Pershing responded, "but as an American Army and in no other way. If you assign me a sector I will take it at once."
The discussion continued in this vein, then Pershing declared:
"Marshal Foch, you have no authority as Allied Commander in Chief, to call upon me to yield up my command of the American Army, to have it scattered among the Allied forces, where it will not be an American Army at all."
The marshal said he must insist upon his arrangements.
"You may insist all you please," declared General Pershing, "but I decline absolutely to agree to your plan. While our army will fight wherever you may decide, it will not fight except as an independent American Army******
The yanks sent less forces than Australia did.
****oh no..!!more creative accounting ...the US army at the end of the war numbered nearly 4.3 million....i dont think Australia's population was even that many.
Australia sent 330,000 approx.***
They lost less forces than Australia did.
Australia lost 60,000...see above.
They got there at the end and hardly fought a battle. They CERTAINLY did not win the war. What a joke.
The Germans just decided they wouldn't win so they negotiated the armistice. The Yanks joining in may have been the final straw. Big deal.
*****yes i think an army of 4 and a half million extra troops , facing a collapsing German army, mutinies and prussian generals being sacked might have just done the trick.
Give it away, FG...they mightnt have had the best troops, but they sure decided who won. Just get over your phobia and give them some credit...the world would be a far worse place without them.
