re: attention atomu - false quoter - a warning
I'm not advocating higher levels of protection for any group - but Irvings ramblings are proven rubbish peddled for an agenda - I've haven't read much of Pipes other than that posted here - It seems like opinion - not smearing historical facts - but like I said I'll have to read further
As for atomu he has a habit of attributing his ideas onto others regardless of whether they hold that view or not - hence the false quoter
