I disagree, the discussion was definitely about comparing CYP p1 against MSB p3, outcome % were stated, hence, no confusion , you were all stating CYP has a product that is producing superior results. That is incorrect.
buggers me why Osiris is peddled out routinely. I don’t know why it’s brought up by CYP holders, like MSB gets no credits lol it seems to be used as an insult. Not in your post I’m replying to btw, It’s clear MSB has improved and brought its own groups of products to the table. It’s like it pointless saying CYP is a nappy business.
”I suppose a second trial in adults as suggested by a MSB representative currently in planning stage may answer this question. Until then, would you call it a fact?”
You must see, it’s CYP holder’s claiming superiority, they have to substantiate that claim. But yes, an adult trial, you could start to compare, obviously adults is only part of the issue, trial size and grades of GVHD are important. Someone discounted this by saying they are all sick. Come on! They wouldn’t grade them if there was no difference.
“You keep switching between doses and treatments. The way I read it, they use the term "treatment" to describe the whole process, including multiple doses per infusion, with 8 infusions during the initial treatment and potentially anther 4 infusions as a follow-up.A MSB representative now mentioned that a single donor can provide enough cells to treat about 400 patients (being very sick children).In the case of GvHD, which is what we have always referred to when talking about it (as that is the only CYP product that has been tested during a clinical trial), your statement is incorrect.HOWEVER, given that the trial for COVID-19 ARDS only uses 2 infusions at 2 x 10^6 cells per kg bodyweight, I am happy to acknowledge that in this indication using remestemcel-L you are likely able to treat (400 patients x 8/2 infusions / 2 as double the weight) close to 1,000 patients. Perhaps MSB needs to be more specific as to what a patient is and which indication they are referring to.”
yes, MSB could give up more details. They play their cards very close to their chest. The reason for this discussion was the claim that harvesting of bone marrow was hard to get and too expensive and that translates to a significant pricing/cost that would mean CYP has a huge advantage to such a level that CYP would dominate. Whichever ratio of harvest to 1000 or 400 x $75,000 per person treated on a harvest cost of $500 per ml or even double it would be more than financially viable and in the scheme of things like royalty payments warf, the harvest cost, is immaterial. That was the point of the discussion.
“I'm pretty sure I didn't say it wasn't within MSB capability. What I am saying is, they are working on it. Yet you treat it as proven technology and therefore a fact when at the same time you say Cymerus is not a proven technology as it has only been applied to 15 patients in a clinical trial.”
my recollection is different. you see, I have a lot of faith in what MSB say. If they say they have it and can manufacture at scale for the foreseen large product markets. They are partnered with Lonza. Someone who is very capable. I trust MSB and what they say. Do you trust what CYP management say? Let’s at least agree that CYP management is underperforming.
“It sounded different before:"with the the advancement of our 3D and limited costs of media I think the real difference isn’t worth it."Again, if a poster on the CYP thread makes a statement and adds "I think", it is considered ramping. However, such statement seems to be perfectly fine on the MSB thread.”
I’m not writing a legal letter here, being careful with every word. Sometimes I can’t be bothered or elaborate. Obviously you have to see the comments in context. Yes the media and cleaning is part of the consideration. Re “it isn’t worth it”, I was likely referring to bone marrow harvest cost as above.
”I have made the decision and stand by it that I won't be investing in MSB for various reasons”
id like to hear them!
Regarding your last paragraph which I can’t copy on my phone for some reason.
yes, I see that, I do. It’s a fairly rough and long road to get something proven or a few things proven for others to have confidence to start trials on your platform and not on MSB’s, to then have them mature to pay CYP for the privilege. And yes I know some companies are on board, who take a fair cut. I think you need a really big company with balls to buy it and go all in now, yes now. Which, if MSB lands Covid. A rising tide will lift all boats. So it’s possible the whole sector will be white hot! Can management extract shareholder value? Maybe, self interest is powerful.
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