Bob's long-winded PTM thread, page-112

The issue is with Tesla is, has the capital raised to avert bankruptcy been well spent and will it generate a great return for investors.

That a company didn't go bankrupt when it had free money galore as in the case of Tesla is no an achievement.

We'd have to pick this "free market money" you are talking about apart, who makes the money if not the government?

The history of money is that armies went to war for kings - by demanding gold and silver money as tax from conquered populations the kings were able to support the armies with real useful things like food rather than pointless gold.

Then the history of Capitalism is early mercantilists like Jakob Fugger (circa 1500) loaning money to kings for wars then overturning the ban on usury then later setting up the first central bank in England 1694. That way rich people could fund England's wars and get a guaranteed rate of interest.

Of course why was there a ban on usury why did the Christians during the collapse of the Roman Empire hate it so much, an interesting question to explore.

So where does capitalism begin and government end?

The reason I can't see it is because its not there, I am not looking through any ideological lens I don't think.

I'm not saying its capitalism because I don't like it, I'd probably agree with you against all the things that you dislike that you're referring to as socialism.