I am outclassed in this thread - hat off to all parties - except allmattergreen
Russiancircles - I like your compromise and understanding.
I am the guilty googlespurt with a only a few gardens for experience, however, I am interested in truth over belief. I have been reading a lot and have to agree with both sides of this argument in many cases.
I like the cleverness of Permaculture and am grateful for the massive yields of modern agriculture. Last week one of my customers told me his long time friend is a farmer here in Thailand. He grows his main crop with fertilizer and pesticides and grows food for his family organically in another area - in this simple story lies part of the answer until I find a better one.
Organic produce is either a necessity where access to fuel and Chemicals is not available or it is a luxury for those who have either money or time and space to produce.
As fossil fuels get more expensive and regulation increases - Will the cleverness of Permaculture,(which is no till) and the Wisdom of Joe Salatin, PA Yoeman ect play a greater role in farms of the future?
Aquaponics is interesting for small scale production in that it seams to produce high yield in a low maintenance system with very low water use. Need to feed the fish and run the pumps. Feeding the fish is a whole new debate waiting to happen....It does not produce staples in its current form, though more primitive systems of rice and fish have probably been used for centuries.
