123enen & Glug - I included the exports in the company tax...

123enen & Glug - I included the exports in the company tax stream how about you read what I said again.

I believe Kincella is saying the PAYE and private business tax payers are the CORE of the economy. And that debt is now too high. And if programs don't work the so called assets turn to crap and we can then count them as debt so let's get real.

I expanded on Kincella's post to state that the core spreads out allowing payments for welfare for example. Bit hard for you guys to figure out apparently so let me try again.

They don't produce anything except consumption which aids a lot of businesses as consumption but it is completely stupid to call them tax payers when their income is from government hand outs.

The key point is that their income is derived from the productive private sector - the PAYE in the private business sector and small businesses that pay tax. This is also supported by larger business.

There is some income earned by larger companies that export and then pay tax. So Kincella a technical mistake on a small part of his argument but this does NOT detract from his point which is correct.

The taxes on exporters do pay for some of the welfare and some of the public service however what proportion is that?? Relatively minor compared to what is generated here.

Remember some of the export earnings and therefore taxes paid on consumption in other countries is also created by small business and there are lots of us - I run one. We work here and pay tax here and are part of the group that are producing something - the group Kincella refers to.

You can nit pick and you can cherry pick but the fact remains the productive core of the economy is the driver. Most of you public servants and welfare consumers and tax payers would have no income without us.

Socialism does not work without capitalism operating efficiently at the core - and even then ONLY as long as it takes socialism to rack up a debt so large the capitalist core is unable to bear it. Then this ludicrous game breaks down again we run on successive cycles of this in Australia.

We have reached this debt saturation in record time with Rudd and Swan, especially assisted by the GFC and WASTE and MISMANAGEMENT. Especially given the private debt as mentioned correctly above. This is another reason why I question the timing of the 'policies' as the private needs to delever - and so the economy is slowing. Not a good time to rack up debt or introduce punitive taxes on business that reduces competitiveness.

If the money had been carefully directed towards CAPACITY TO PRODUCE instead of idiotic programs conceived by total numpties and then managed by incompetents then I would be commending the spending and possibly the debt. As long as the debt did not get out of hand which it has already given the size of the core tax base that supports the rest of this economic farce.

It is not big enough, if exports contract and if business profits contract as they look like doing we are in trouble. As public servants have to be laid off we move to a larger welfare bill as well and lower profits around the core business sector we get additional pressure.

Now you guys just proved you are looking out of the little hole from inside your ALP - see last post. Nice and warm in there is it? Butler puts it well - get outside and see what's cooking in the real world. Visit some small businesses suffering as they slowly sink into apathy and bankruptcy, or exist from hand to mouth as profits dry up in the private sector.

Don't sit in your PS job on a weekly wage and lecture us from a vantage point of no experience please.

CW