A Brief History of Tomorrow

Originally posted by whereu ↑

I agree with many of your points and have not commented on most of these.
Here are a few responses to some of your points.

"Even from science we know you don't get such results as a universe and life by sprinkling muffle dust and time together."
They can't manufacture life in this way and then claim that the only alternative is that a God did it, which tells us nothing.

"The potential for life and an evolving universe were in the makeup of the very beginning."
Sounds reasonable. But we don't really know.

"And of course beginning is only a relative term because no actual beginning is possible."
Relative to what?
Nobody knows whether or not this is possible. I have provided a set of circumstances in which this is possible - I don't claim credit for this. Scientists have put forward the idea which does not contradict the known understanding of the universe.

"It build every society on earth in that the foundations of culture and social differentiation whilst remaining part of a social structure were the result of groups embracing common religious beliefs."
That only emphasizes the roles played by religious beliefs, not of their correctness. History is full of incorrect beliefs.

" I'm afraid the likes of the JW does not breed insecurities, rather the inculcate a certainty born of ignorance."
In my experience, the life blood of most religions is to play on people's insecurities. As far as comments on JW doctrine are concerned, they punch above their pay scale on this forum because of all the sects MrG is the most active. As far as the rest of the world is concerned JWs are, at most, a minor irritation that wakes them up on the occasional Sunday morning - of course this does not apply to the small minority who have been caught in their spider's web of deceit.

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They can't manufacture life in this way and then claim that the only alternative is that a God did it, which tells us nothing. I think they can so long as the debate then centres on what might then be the nature of God? It is obviously beyond the concept of human intellect. Is it possible for life to be non-existent and then come into being? I don't know but I doubt that a complete absence of life of any is possible. Just as some kind of pre-matter state may have existed, a pre-life state is likely to exist from time to time and when conditions are suitable matter blooms followed by life. I believe that rather than being self-establishing there is a Principle State of Order that enables these processes.

Sounds reasonable. But we don't really know. I think we do, I don't know of any outcome that did not exist in potential firstly.

Relative to what? Relative to what we understand of beginnings and ends. Before you and I existed we were in some other disassociated state. When we die will will again move into a disassociated state, but the reality is that the atoms of our constitution continue on their merry way and nothing is lost of us. The universe even appearing from a quantum fluctuation, or some such, is not a nothingness to a somethingness, it is one state to another.

That only emphasises the roles played by religious beliefs, not of their correctness. History is full of incorrect beliefs. That's a big incongruous with the outcome. Look at it as a scientist. Religion built humanity, therefore religion must be . . . . ? Must be . . . . ? Come on, whisper it. An essential and fundamentally real and necessary aspect of the human condition.

In my experience, the life blood of most religions is to play on people's insecurities. This has been my experience also, but mostly because the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Legal systems, politics, marriage and religions start out with the best of intentions and can be corrupted over time. Religion is at its lowest ebb at the moment. And yes, I certainly do not doubt the sincerity of the JW and the self-sacrificing commitment they make, my point was more to do with the riveted on positions such religions end up with this removes insecurities and enables them to dismiss the opinions of others without a moments consideration.