A Brief History of Tomorrow

Originally posted by darkroom ↑

They can't manufacture life in this way and then claim that the only alternative is that a God did it, which tells us nothing. I think they can so long as the debate then centres on what might then be the nature of God? It is obviously beyond the concept of human intellect. Is it possible for life to be non-existent and then come into being? I don't know but I doubt that a complete absence of life of any is possible. Just as some kind of pre-matter state may have existed, a pre-life state is likely to exist from time to time and when conditions are suitable matter blooms followed by life. I believe that rather than being self-establishing there is a Principle State of Order that enables these processes.

Sounds reasonable. But we don't really know. I think we do, I don't know of any outcome that did not exist in potential firstly.

Relative to what? Relative to what we understand of beginnings and ends. Before you and I existed we were in some other disassociated state. When we die will will again move into a disassociated state, but the reality is that the atoms of our constitution continue on their merry way and nothing is lost of us. The universe even appearing from a quantum fluctuation, or some such, is not a nothingness to a somethingness, it is one state to another.

That only emphasises the roles played by religious beliefs, not of their correctness. History is full of incorrect beliefs. That's a big incongruous with the outcome. Look at it as a scientist. Religion built humanity, therefore religion must be . . . . ? Must be . . . . ? Come on, whisper it. An essential and fundamentally real and necessary aspect of the human condition.

In my experience, the life blood of most religions is to play on people's insecurities. This has been my experience also, but mostly because the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Legal systems, politics, marriage and religions start out with the best of intentions and can be corrupted over time. Religion is at its lowest ebb at the moment. And yes, I certainly do not doubt the sincerity of the JW and the self-sacrificing commitment they make, my point was more to do with the riveted on positions such religions end up with this removes insecurities and enables them to dismiss the opinions of others without a moments consideration.

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"Is it possible for life to be non-existent and then come into being? I don't know but I doubt that a complete absence of life of any is possible."
From what we know about earth, there was once no life, then there was life. Either life started from non-life on earth or it was introduced from elsewhere. The God hypothesis adds no insights and probably can't be tested. People claim that life from non-life is not possible without a God but are happy to believe that God just exists - this is no more enlightening than to claim that life just started.

"Just as some kind of pre-matter state may have existed, a pre-life state is likely to exist from time to time and when conditions are suitable matter blooms followed by life. I believe that rather than being self-establishing there is a Principle State of Order that enables these processes."
That's a possibility - we just don't know

"I think we do, I don't know of any outcome that did not exist in potential firstly."
That may be true within our experience. It's the old problem that we can't know and /or experience everything? We may well be surprised when we find out things that are currently a mystery

"That's a big incongruous with the outcome.Look at it as a scientist. Religion built humanity, therefore religion must be . . . . ? Must be . . . . ?"
Religion is painted the "be all and end all". It certainly has been influential in human history, but the extent to which it has been positive and negative is very much debatable. The age of enlightenment began it Italy when humanity began to free itself from the spiders' webs created by religion. It is true that legal and judicial systems began life within the framework of religion, as did our first understanding of the universe - to take up wotsup idea of the "first milk" we need to wean ourselves off breast milk and move to solids.

"Come on, whisper it. An essential and fundamentally real and necessary aspect of the human condition."
Come on. Don't be shy. Spit it out. What have you in mind.

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Religions only knows rigid, inflexible frameworks to operate. Will they ever reform? I doubt it - if they did then they may cease to be religions.