A Brief History of Tomorrow

Originally posted by darkroom ↑

Science is a way in which we attempt to replace opaque walls that hide the understanding of our universe with transparent ones. The understanding of the mechanisms of the universe, the forces and processes of natural order, the complex networks or interrelated forms, all that pertains to physical reality, yes. That is the abode of science. And it can tell us in many cases when religion is just telling stories, that is, when religion steps outside of physical frames of reality we know they are either gullible or lying.

But true to form with human nature this is not sufficient because our need to have our fears and needs addressed goes way beyond curiosity. Rightly so. I'm not sure fear is as big a deal as the atheist might hope. And what are our needs in this case? We were as nothing and the next moment we are living, breathing sentient beings who are told on one hand that a god did it and on the other natural order did it. What's the difference, either way they have to have the exact same qualities to arrive at the same place. Even from science we know you don't get such results as a universe and life by sprinkling muffle dust and time together. The potential for life and an evolving universe were in the makeup of the very beginning. And of course beginning is only a relative term because no actual beginning is possible.

Most don't relish the thought of dying, of having no purpose for our existence, of not knowing how we came into being, of not being loved and accepted and so on, so we invent a solution to cover the insecurities of not knowing. A healthy person one would hope, does not long for death. I have seen a lot of people die and not one of them was afraid and most of them were atheist. Of course the big questions are important to us but this notion of inventing a solution is trite to say the least. The religious journey has been a rich and profound awakening for humanity. It build every society on earth in that the foundations of culture and social differentiation whilst remaining part of a social structure were the result of groups embracing common religious beliefs. It is fundamental. It is hardwired in the human psyche. We have the neural receptors for spiritual states. Sure you can fight the good fight against the idiocy of fundamental religion, but there is a reality in there as well that should not be dismissed out of hand.

Our solution is to invent Gods - although by now most of the inventing has been done for us. We tag along with one that has already been invented. Well yes, I have to agree. The problem with religion is religion. Every so often I'll watch the religious channel on TV and it is truly devastating to see what state that religion has sunk to. It's theatre. It's entertainment and of little use to anybody. Every version of God is invented, not sure this is a solution, rather it's a human attempt to make sense of something that is beyond our comprehension. This of course does not negate some kind of Primal Force of Cause.

We have different names for our chosen Gods such as Creator, Creative Force, Designer, Intelligent Designer and so on. All have some common points. Their purpose is an attempt to cover the insecurities of our not understanding. Not so sure about insecurities. The real problem with religion is certainty of ignorance. If more insecurities were expressed then their would be more fellowship amongst religions. When you debate some of your fundamentalist friends on HC how receptive are they to you or any other point of view. I'm afraid the likes of the JW does not breed insecurities, rather the inculcate a certainty born of ignorance.

Science is a good tool to uncover the unknowns of the universe but is a poor tool to deal with our insecurities in the face of that which is not yet understood - and so we fall back on some form of religion. Science is religion, religion is science, nothing to do with insecurities. People are religious because it is a part of their makeup. Science is the name for religion when it investigates physical reality. It's called religion when it investigates the unknown aspects of our existance that will ever defy empirical evidence. Religion is not a fall back position. It has been as fundamental to our lives as science.

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I agree with many of your points and have not commented on most of these.
Here are a few responses to some of your points.

"Even from science we know you don't get such results as a universe and life by sprinkling muffle dust and time together."
They can't manufacture life in this way and then claim that the only alternative is that a God did it, which tells us nothing.

"The potential for life and an evolving universe were in the makeup of the very beginning."
Sounds reasonable. But we don't really know.

"And of course beginning is only a relative term because no actual beginning is possible."
Relative to what?
Nobody knows whether or not this is possible. I have provided a set of circumstances in which this is possible - I don't claim credit for this. Scientists have put forward the idea which does not contradict the known understanding of the universe.

"It build every society on earth in that the foundations of culture and social differentiation whilst remaining part of a social structure were the result of groups embracing common religious beliefs."
That only emphasizes the roles played by religious beliefs, not of their correctness. History is full of incorrect beliefs.

" I'm afraid the likes of the JW does not breed insecurities, rather the inculcate a certainty born of ignorance."
In my experience, the life blood of most religions is to play on people's insecurities. As far as comments on JW doctrine are concerned, they punch above their pay scale on this forum because of all the sects MrG is the most active. As far as the rest of the world is concerned JWs are, at most, a minor irritation that wakes them up on the occasional Sunday morning - of course this does not apply to the small minority who have been caught in their spider's web of deceit.