GenericMibrobe said: nah i think you've got it the wrong way. to have morality you need to have freewill (or else your just doing what was ordained and u had no dilemma). having freewill gives you the choice to do good or evil...free will won't bring your harmony
disagree, naturally.
in fact, to me, like Director, you sound so confused & mixed up, this will be the last reply I make to you on this topic.
1. lokaull seemed to mention the very fact that Commandments had to be issued shows a lack of free will
2. evil is called "evil" because it is something that brings a bad result. if it did not bring a bad result (like imprisonment, addiction, loss of job, loss of wife or husband, loss of friends, sexual disease, mental trauma, etc) then it would not be called "evil"
3. thus, generally, those doing evil are controlled by blind emotion rather than conscious (free) will
4. your argument that evil-doers consciously do evil due to free will gives the impression you believe good can come from evil &/or, otherwise, all evil is performed by conscious sadistics. where as, in reality, evil doers do evil under the ignorance they believe they are doing good, like a rapist that believes he will obtain the 'good' of sexual pleasure but ends up with the evil of imprisonment & even a death penalty
5. thus, to have morality you need to have wisdom/insight rather than free-will. if you are choosing to follow morality because of Commandments, then you do not have free will, but instead, are being bullied by threats of punishment against you
6. if the mind is wise, it is moral as though being moral was ordained. thus, when the mind is wise, it does not 'choose' to be moral because being moral is normal & natural for the mind
7. but if you must exercise your will to be moral, this means there is an underlying force within you tempting you to do evil. if so, this shows your will is not free because the very force of evil is influencing it to be moral
8. it is the very existence of evil that is twisting your will to be moral. thus, your will is not free but, instead, being influenced by evil
9. but your argument seems to saying to be immoral is to do what is ordained.
10. Buddha, which means The Fully Enlightened Mind, explained two paths: (i) a path to evil & suffering; (ii) a path to peace & goodness. Buddha is always right
11. the path to evil & suffering starts with wrong view (ignorance), which gives rise to wrong intention (wrong will), which gives rise to wrong action (evil)
12. the path to peace & goodness starts with right view (wisdom), which gives rise to right intention (right will), which gives rise to right action (moral)
13. because you believe evil comes from free-will, there is a poor basis for forgiveness. for example, a man that was pinned to a cross said: "Forgive them, for they do not know what they do". This man did not say: ""Forgive them, for they are exercising their free will".
14. thus, your & Director's doctrine of free-will will mostly lead to judgment rather than forgiveness
15. such doctrine is not the religion, which teaches mercy triumphs over judgment & if you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
so the 15 points above show your view is confused & mixed up, that it is wrong view, which will not lead to the heaven of liberation but, instead, the hell of judgment, hate & condemnation
