Yeah, having now gone back and listened more closely to JL's...

Yeah, having now gone back and listened more closely to JL's comments on Allkem I thought he was wide of the mark (again). Seeing he claims he put the deal between Toyota Tsusho and Orocobre together he obviously knows that Orocobre was probably the first lithium producer that did a deal with a major car manufacturer to supply lithium for batteries. And in Martin MD's tenure they have reabsorbed Advantage Lithium, merged with Galaxy, survived the lithium price crash from 2018 to 2020, got through COVID, got through the politics and economics of Argentina, seen both Naraha and Olaroz 2 move into production, advanced Sal de Vida, are on the cusp of beginning to develop James Bay, and now are moving towards a merger with Livent. I would not give the Allkem team ten out of ten but I'd hardly describe them as having been in sleep mode for the last decade. Whoever came up with the saying that hell has no fury like a woman scorned has obviously not come across a "chemicals" consultant who missed out on some work he thought he was due.

Joe holds Orocobre / Allkem up against the progress of Ganfeng which for me is an example of wilful naivety by him. Chinese companies like Ganfeng can grow at breakneck speed for as long as and because they have the backing of the Chinese government, and therefore Chinese banks. Lithium and other critical metals should not be viewed solely from a commercial context, but also from a geopolitical angle (hence the IRA Act and active support now starting to come from western governments). It is no good preaching the purity of free markets, as our Productivity Commission continues to do, when the other side have clearly thrown the rule book out.

On the carbonate / hydroxide issue I think it is possible to overstate the advantages of lithium phosphate batteries. If price was the sole determinant then the Germans would only have VW and not also BMW and Mercedes. However from what I understand solid state lithium batteries need neither hydroxide or carbonate, they can get the metal from sulfate (???), and I get the feeling that when solid state batteries they will enter the equation in the segment currently occupied by NCM batteries. (I acknowledge that Toyota has indicated they will start using their solid state batteries in hybrids before rolling them out in EVs).