re: mr jones - ten major u.s. disasters on sig Mr Jones some time ago I posted this under "something different" and it possibly expresses the way I see determinism and indeterminism. Bit busy at the moment to go into any "deep" discussion but indeterminism is also important while very much less so in science and shouldn't control science the way it does ...... Karl Popper is at http://www.eeng.dcu.ie/~tkpw/intro_popper/intro_popper.html http://www.geocities.com/criticalrationalist/tradition.htm
Posted 07/07/04 05:26 Posted by denman
As promised, please consider this a bit more ..... and of course the answer does reside in the soil as the genial gardener, Peter Cundall would say. Gardeners are so veritable.
Both empty space and solid matter do not exist but are human idealizations. If you accept this as fact then the nonexistence of the universe is an impossibility. This then suggests the concept of the infinite which means no beginning and no ending.
A perfect vacuum is impossible because any material surrounding a vacuum will have a pressure and will thus release particles into the empty space. Within what was thought to be a pure vacuum, scientists have found that even miniscule subatomic particle-antiparticle pairs frequently appear out of nowhere, only to disappear a very short time later. Even in the near-perfect vacuum of outer space, energy is spontaneously being “created” and “destroyed” all the time.
Similarly, solid matter can only infinitely become a near perfect solid and never a finite solid. We have long held the idea of nothingness but it is just that, an idea. No part of this infinite environment could be devoid of matter ... its nonexistence is impossible.
So the reality is an infinite environment, formed by a continuum between the near empty space and the near solid matter. All things are interconnected. Between any two objects, exists other material constituents that push matter and transmit motion. So we have an infinite forever evolving universe, where whatever happens to a thing is the result of that infinite variety of matter in motion within and without. All these evolving processes are irreversible and are subject to divergence and convergence from other things. From a human perspective, this is also infinite in microscopic and macroscopic directions of scale.
Following on from this is the concept that all numbers are positive ....... no minus numbers here I’m sorry. We humans of course, can have plenty of credit and negative numbers but that’s a different story.
Then how could Newton and so many others proclaim gravity to be an attraction when it surely is a push. i.e. Le Sage's theory. Material constituents tend to be pushed towards each other through processes of mutual shielding from other high-velocity colliding particles. The “pull” of gravity that we observe is similar to the “suction” produced by our “vacuum” cleaner ... both are really pushes and mathematics is no help in distinguishing between them. Each element in the universe requires its “pushers” to keep it together. This explains why the universe must be microcosmically as well as macrocosmically infinite. It also explains why Denman here, sees the momentum and action in a capitalist stock market as all push. Also explains why Denman studies those surfers at south Bondi. Geez this is relevant.
Einstein placed time on the same level as the three spatial dimensions. However time is the product of the motion of matter and is not a dimension. The motion of matter in various parts of the universe varies from imperceptibly slow to imperceptibly fast but just as there is no motion without matter, then the universe is Euclidean with three spatial dimensions only. Any other suggestions of dimensions and there are many ( e.g. time, velocity, acceleration, color spectrum, brightness level, etc) are derivatives. So actual time travel is an impossibility. Geez I’m sorry about this one but it may help with trading those shares. i.e. time held is equated with momentum. (motion)
In summary, this is not an expanding universe as so many people seem to assume and assure. Empty space is an idealization and to somehow be growing into that is not a reality. Simply, the universe cannot be expanding and by its definition, there can only be one universe. This is best understood as a boundless evolving environment rather than some system.
But why is this important? Well it is the question of all questions and the problem that really prepossesses all others. As an unexceptional lifeform we need to know where we came from, what are the limits, what are our goals, to what do we tend to, to what do we have control over, to what are the possibilities, to what is determinable and to how much we desire the indeterminable. Our global society for a fact is very much driven by indeterminism ..... i.e. the assumption that some effects may not have material causes. Where determinism encourages us to seek answers and knowledge, indeterminism says there are none and maintains ignorance.
The reality is that each person and each society contains elements of both in varying degrees but no matter what, there is always perpetual conflict with these two ways of viewing the world.
From this we can notice a Global Wedgie ....... e.g. * Take a line and remove the middle third. There are two line segments left. * One segment (say on the left) represents determinism. * The other segment (on the right) represents indeterminism. * The removed segment still exists somewhere but is controlled/confiscated by indeterminism.
Much has been expressed about determinism and indeterminism. Both are necessary to our survival and also we may not in fact be exceptional which is another story. BUT there needs to be a connection and it is this connection/relationship that counts. BUT do you think someone’s all-powerful teddy has confiscated it?
