FIRST UP, YOU PRIOR POST and this one, NOT A SINGLE POINT YOU...

FIRST UP, YOU PRIOR POST and this one, NOT A SINGLE POINT YOU RAISE, NULIFIE OR ADDRESSED -> JEUS INDEPENDENTLY OF HIMSELF DEFINED, REFERENCED THE FATHER AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD WHEN HE WAS HERE.

THEY DO EVERYTHING BUT, PER DESPERTATION AND FAILURE.

The following -> (He unquestionably here, independently of himself, defines, references, the Father as the only true God, when he was here). -> has zero to do with the relationship subject or the relationship they have.
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"Correct, here, Jesus is not talking about his relationship he has with the Father, meaning the the Trinity or who is or not God, what Jesus is talking about is that the Father is the true God from the gods of the world, so you agree there is no merits to what you put on 17:3, case closed"

I see you are cherry picking, I elaborated on this further in your post.
You kept up with your nonsense, by me saying the Jesus independently of himself defining the only true God, was saying they do things independently of each other, as in their missions etc.
That is the BS of your that I was rejecting, as my message does not effect that.

He most definitely is talking about who is or not God and that's LOUD and CLEAR in your face, as knowing that is necessary for eternal life, according to Jesus's clear message.
Naturally it's not referring to something that doesn't exist = trinity.
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The Only True God the Father, still has a relationship with the Son, the 2nd Adam Man who he has given -> John 17:2 - as You have given Him (Jesus) authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
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"There you go then you agree with the Trinity as Jesus has the same attributes as the Father. Case closed again"

That has ZERO to do with a trinity (Delusional) and I would hardly call it an attribute, > as You have given Him (Jesus) authority over all flesh,
Case closed, how delusional.
Again though, on THE subject, that has zero to do with -> JEUS INDEPENDENTLY OF HIMSELF DEFINED, REFERENCED THE FATHER AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD WHEN HE WAS HERE.
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My statement does NOT say or suggest, that they do works independently of them selves, or plans.
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"The bible is very clear that there is only one God one saviour, yet we see Jesus is the saviour, so by your reckoning we either have 2 saviours or we have one as in God is one and the Trinity"


I see you're ignoring = decoy, my words/message and why they were said.
The Bible now as of NT times, does NOT say there is only one saviour, that was only Yehowah in the OT times, as no Jesus in anyway shape or form existed, other than a plan and purpose, within the Father, knowns as his inner logos 1:1,2 where our logos/plans begin as with our creations.
Hence the Jesus to be, was the firstborn of God's creations, BECAUSE in him (for this reason) all things were created, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of the one to be born from Mary Col 1:15, 16 and created by Yehowah (Father) alone and by himself Isa 44:24)
Isaiah 43:11 (NIV): "I, even I, am Yehowah, and apart from me there is no savior.
He was always going to do this through a future one, hence now John 17:3, it's a join saving plan.
The NT in places references each of them separately as saviours and YOU should know this.

Again you fail to address -> JEUS INDEPENDENTLY OF HIMSELF DEFINED, REFERENCED THE FATHER AS THE ONLY TRUE GOD WHEN HE WAS HERE.
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2."Instead, it reflects the intricate dynamics of the Trinity,"

It shows nothing of a sort, re trinity, there are two persons so to speak in the picture and NOT 3, and now not like OT times where the Father alone was the Saviour, it is now a joint, united operation, with the only true God and his Son, the 2nd Adam Man, which was always the Fathers plan Rev 13:8.
The Fathers purpose and plan = logos/plan John 1:1b and 1:2, manifested in and through Jesus, born from Mary.
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"Correct wotsup, 2 persons but God is one remember, and one saviour, you see how you are the one actually adding another person, As Jesus is the means or essence of God interacting with his creation, either Jesus is God, or we have 2 persons"

Are you BLIND to my message or WHAT????????????????
God is one member = the only true God and Father - Yehowah and the 2nd member in the plan is the 2nd Adam Man whose all time ever existence come into being from Mary.

We now in NT times, as planed in OT times, have 2 saviours, jointly working together.

"either Jesus is God, or we have 2 persons"

Is that showing Delusions or what = goodness gracious me.
He was not a God when he was here, as his words in 17:3 and confirmed in John 1:18, now glorified and now a Begotten God, ruling for the Father until death no more.
So yes we have two persons, the Father being the only true God at the time of Jesus, and the Father is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is the 2nd Adam Man = two persons so to speak, one of them was God.
I ascend to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God or as Paul puts it, One God the Father.

"As Jesus is the means or essence of God interacting with his creation,"

Yes as he was raised by the God and Father in his word, that he IS 1:1, for most of his life Deu 18:18.
So when Jesus expressed out the God and Fathers words, he BECAME the express image of the God and Fathers Person Heb 1:3 KJV. John 14:10
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Titus 1:2 - in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, (To himself I would say).
2 Tim 1:9 - He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began.
(Note the name Jesus = the man Jesus, the one to be born from Mary).
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"What’s your point, now take note in what you wrote “He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began” before time began hint hint, Jesus existed before time began,
Again case close,"

Blindness to my message yet AGAIN -> Note the name Jesus = the man Jesus, the one to be born from Mary.
The name "Jesus" ONLY come about after his birth from Mary, so in this verse it is speaking of Jesus in the hear and now context, the Man.
He did not exist before his birth as Jesus, so the verse is clearly in reference to the Jesus to be = future.

You should know by now, as far as God's plans go, he sees them as already complete, before they are manifested and the Bible shows this, and that is what this verse is saying, the Jesus to be.
They certainly weren't "called" back then etc DRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR lol.

The case closed all right, and snapped your nose right in it LOL.
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These people referenced here, can rightfully ask the Father -> John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
(Note - there is NO Greek word that supports "I" as in "I had", it simply should read (which or who held) = Father alone held it, but never the less, they could ask for the glory, just as Jesus did, and neither were literally there).

3. "Jesus' mission and identity are inseparable from His role in revealing the Father, suggesting that to know Jesus is to know the Father (as He states in John 14:9)."
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"Thank you wotsup, “suggesting that to know Jesus is to know the Father” have you got any idea the magnitude of the Father, no human can compared God as we are nothing so to speak, what you are suggesting that Jesus is the same magnitude of the Father, again, lines in perfectly that Jesus is of the same essence of the Father= Trinity, again case closed"

Are you seeing how 2 Thes 2:11 really has you wrapped up.
"Thankyou wotsup" = you sad one, you're thanking me for copy/pasting your words, NOT mine DRRRRRRRRRRRR LOL.
Yep, your nose snapped up in the case again

As expected, I see you backed away from the fact that the people in 2 Tim 1:9 could rightfully ask the Father for John 17:5, a truth to which you can't deny, and claim truth.
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"Identity" -> Yes, 2nd Adam Man, born from Mary did as you show, revealed the Father -> (He unquestionably here, independently of himself, defines, references, the Father as the only true God, when he was here).
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"For God to interact with His creation he become lower than the angels His incarnation, took on a human form and, for a time, was made "lower than the angels." This was part of His mission to save humanity through His suffering and death, ultimately leading to His exaltation and glory Heb 2:7-9, and you are partially right, Jesus is independent, another person from God, as he became flesh but that does not separate his unity with the Father when he was here, again case closed"

You better guard that nose, it's about to get Snapped up again.

"For God to interact with His creation he become lower than the angels His incarnation,

That's a bare face LIE and NOT supported by the Bible in anyway shape or form.
The 1st Adam Man Jesus's, all time ever beginnings of any kind he -> "was made "lower than the angels."
Nothing in the Bible says or even hints at, he was reduced from something greater, to be made lower, that nonsense is out of the land of fairies.

"Jesus is independent, another person from God, as he became flesh"

Do you even get what your delusions create here
According to you one God creation, 3 persons, so while Jesus was here, we supposedly only had a 2 person = 2/3rds of God in heaven, hmmm, yea right, I'll stick to My God, the one Jesus out lines in 17:3, and now him John 1:18, a God under The God and Father.

Jesus's Unity with the Father, the Man and God the Father, are one in word = one in plan and purpose - united.

Jesus became flesh, from a plan from within the Only true God and Father, only at his birth from Mary.
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The Book of John is to show you that Jesus is the Son of God.
So logic and commonsense tells one, you first need to know the one he is of, otherwise you have no idea who he is the Son of.
To know the Father is to know the Son, just as the following shows;
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"No issue there mate, if they are individual, and separated independent of himself, then you are only knowing Jesus, not the Father, they have to be of the same essence in order to know one and the other, again, no issue whatsoever with the Trinity, it lines up perfectly, but not with your version, as they both have to be God so we know them, if Jesus is not God, then really we do not know God
Again case closed"

You're going to get another nose job, you'll need a transplant if this keeps up LOL.
You've posted a load of rubbish here again.
You search the scriptures (word of life) for in them you think you have life and they are those that speak of me and these come from the Father, or at least inspired by him.

And Jesus covers the likes of, if you had known my Father, you would have known me etc, I speak not of myself etc, etc.
I could cover heaps in this area.

They don't have to be of the same essence, but at the same time, you're tossing aside, that the God and Father raised him in his word for most of his life.
They certainly don't both have to be God, to know one by know the other, goodness me, where are you getting these crazy notions ???????????

just as the following shows; -> I notice you cherry picked my post and left of what followed, which downed you case, or answered you nonsense above.

Absolutely NO trinity required, to know either one by knowing one of them.

SNAP, whoops, the case again - OUCH LOL, call 000
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All things, includes Jesus -> like let there be light, let there be Jesus, as per the Mary event.
Words of the Father expressed Forth to the Angel who in turn expressed them forth to Mary and Jesus at least 4 times in John says, he came forth from the Father and was then sent into the world = after his Baptism John 17:18 for example.
Isa 55:10, 11 is another example of Yehowah's word going "forth" out of his mouth.

Word God -> Image -> Word Man.
1:14 And the Word Man (Existing 1:3, Luke) became = (on the scene) and dwelt...............
(NOT And the Word became man, mess with word order, you create another story).
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"That’s right, He came forth from the Father, what you don’t understand is before time only God existed, nothing else, and everything came forth from the Father, the “Word” was the essence of the Father, and that essence became Flesh and became Jesus, that doesn’t mean the word didn’t existed, it became flesh to interact for our salvation, that is when the human Jesus came on the scene"

Yes the only true God and Father was the only one existing, and then he had a plan, known as logos/plan within him, and while in you it is you = and God (Father) was/is the Word.
Hence the Word was the inner essence, wisdom, thoughts, plan/purpose of the Father and the first of that to be expressed forth out of him was the likes of Gens creation.
But the plan for a Jesus to be, was the first of his logos/plans, and all other things for him and now because he was the firstborn from the dead, he now physically hold preeminence in all things, instead of what was Jesus as plan to be Col 1:18.
Then when the times were fulfilled, the logos/plan part of it for a Jesus to be, was expressed forth, his first all time physical beginnings of any kind.

The Word = the God and Father did not become flesh, once your word is expressed forth, it is no longer you.
It was the likes, let there be light.............let there be a Jesus.
Surely you're not going to tell us that God is all creation, hmmmmm
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The rest of you post, is basically repeating the same error, around and around in various ways and just because you keep repeating it, does NOT make it true.

"And do tell in the last few mounts you have mentioned 17:3, and who was it that said it won’t go away, so please stop accusing me of repeating myself
The same Goes, with your own error that you don’t see the sheer on what you put on V17:3 to make it line up with your views, your notion pure and simply does not exist, you been told many times, it is you who fail to see your own untrue errors"

My above is in relation to - Jesus independently of himself, defines, references the father as the only true God when he was here.

You repeat your same nonsense and NONE of it address's or makes the above void, that's what I'm talking about, none of you long winded posts prove it wrong.
You keep telling me it doesn't exist and have provided everything BUT -> show that it doesn't exist.

IT ABSOLUTELY EXISTS IN JESUS'S WORDS, AND NOTHING YOU CAN DO OR PROVIDE CAN CHANGE THIS CLEAR TRUTH, THE VERY REASON YOU HAVE BEYOND DOUBT, FAILED EVERY TIME, DESPITE THE NUMEROUS CREATIONS AND DECOYS -> EXPAMPLES CLEARLY SHOW IN THE LATEST DEPERATE POSTS.
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In John 17:3, Jesus does indeed use the phrase "the only true God" to reference the Father, which underscores the Father’s unique and singular divine identity." = (He unquestionably here, independently of himself, defines, references, the Father as the only true God, when he was here).

"This declaration aligns with the Jewish Shema from Deuteronomy 6:4," -> Hear, Israel! Yehowah our God Yehowah One is.

Yehowshuwa (Jesus) is NOT Yehowah, so the One is, is as in One person and NOT 3 persons.
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"Sorry that statement only exist in your head, when you read scripture in the right context, one will see how silly this notion really is, as Jesus is never ever independent of Himself, and that verse is referring to false Gods, period"

OH PLEASE explain on H/C to ALL, how Yehowah referenced here is not One person, Our God hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
And how the Only true God and Father in 17:3 is NOT one person.

That is the ONLY context available, unless you want to knowingly follow lies OR 2 Thes 2:11 has you and you have not option but to reject it.
Which certainly appears to be the case with you, on what Jesus's word unquestionably spell out in 17:3.

I never said Jesus was independent of HIMSELF, you are twisting my words, context.
It's his statement meaning that's independent of himself, the person Jesus is independent, in reference to who is the only true God = not Jesus.

DESPERATION -> "false god's" has ZERO to do with the one KEY point I make, which you know or should know, is NOT possible.
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Ppm once again fails to fault the following, case closed from his end until he shows otherwise, after he's licked his wounds maybe LOL.

(He unquestionably here 17:3, independently of himself, defines, references, the Father as the only true God, when he was here).