antizion - interesting reading, page-2

Sunkist,

What is your game? To show that there are various and sometimes contradictory strands of thought amongst Jews? It is interesting to follow some of these divergent paths but diversity is the name of the game whether it be Christianity,Islam or Judaism. None of these religions speaks with a united voice, on many issues, across the spectrum of diversity which exists within each of these three mono-theistic and historically related religions.

For all intents and purposes Israel could be considered a secular and democratic state in the Western Tradition.
The biblical perspectives overlaid as a rationale for it's existence really belong to certain groups within the wider Jewish community as well as to certain Christian groupings. That really is a matter of certain convictions amongst those groups.

If you are trying to discredit the existence of the Israeli state on the basis of what is a "true" Jew you are ignoring the reality of it's present existence which rests, at least in the world forum,on totally different grounds.

Some of the arguments and ideas raised here belong to the former groupings and are really only of academic and historical interest.

lrj

ps. I find it interesting that the Neturei Karta sect, though claiming to be "The True Torah" believers use the Talmud (the three oaths) as though it is equal in authority to the Torah. I fail to see how they are "more Torah" than other Jews while they hold this view.

Their argument essentially is that there is no such person as a non-believing Jew. ie It is a particular faith that makes one a Jew.Their own Torah of course should tell them that there always have been unbelievers who were considered part of the nation. If that was not so what was the point of the prophets calling the nation, time and time again back to God. They weren't preaching to the converted nor were they excluding the "uncoverted" from the covenant on the grounds of their unbelief.

I suggest that this movement is to Judaism what the Puritan movement is to Christianity.