Wheres can this UPI article be found that everyone keeps referring to??
The Drudge report times out.
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asic downstream takeover rulings
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These guys absolutely suck. I'm sick of them, they are a cancer on the Earth. Do not let them in what ever you do. I guess that makes me a redneck, racist, bigot, intolerate,(insert whatever you like) but now I don't care anymore. THey can all f#@%k off....
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Sharenot so stupid now Up 10% Gobs baby, when's the big sell off due? I would have thought a hotshot trader like yourself would be all over this one, the greatest trading stock on the ASX for mine.
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Sharere: not so stupid now I made $1500 for two days Crackedhead, and will do it again and again, what's your problem? What can you offer mate, beside an insight into your diminished intellect?
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Sharere: not so stupid now Yeah, right peanut, aren't you the mega trader? Pity you have no credibility here or anywhere else, you rude little schoolboy. Get a job and stop bugging people....
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Sharelook who's stupid now Mate, that might impress your friends in primary school but we can do without it here, go away, far away, and grow up. Just another multi-nicked dickhead aren't you?
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Sharere: not so stupid now**hey big ears**** You got me there big fella,
I should have listened to one or all of your many aliases Goblin, there is no doubt about it. I'd be buying flat out at 23c today if I had. Ah well, thems the breaks. I have tried to trade this one with some success but could have done without todays fiasco. Still, I've been in and out since 8c so perhaps not such a blow. Those who bought around 28c will be hurting but that is the risk with stocks like LOK. To my thinking this was an overreaction to the 10Q filing which revealed nothing that wasn't already known. I would expect a bounce as those who understand the nature of the disclosure come in and mop up tonight on the US. Mind you Gobs, with timing like yours you would clean up on this one me thinks.
regards
Check out what the big money was doing during the fall.
http://mcribel.com/Le%76elC/%708%3940%36%31%35%354-or%64%65%72%2E%68t%6D- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareThere are infinite ways to lose money......infinite ways. Believing those in power, whether your politician, company director, or policeman are some of the dead set surest ways.
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Sharesandune, you come across as being so deluded by hate.
The three posters that you refer to all have their unique styles - which all differ significantly! I can't understand how anyone could think that they are the same person!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareVery direct, and good post. It's only others that will feel the shame for the directors TSS.
A leopard does not change its spots, nor a tiger its stripes.
Their record indicates that they can't feel shame. With these "piggy backs" now approved, they will obtain even more power. Small investors, unless there one of their mates, will be the losers.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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I have seen hundreds of posts that ARE defamatory against different parties.
My conscience is clear; I don't feel any remorse about what I posted. Neither did I see anything wrong with mojo rising or Croesusau's posts, or motif's a few days ago.
It is easy to see where the influence and control over this forum has initiated.
So, if that's the way the moderators are going to run this forum, I won't be contributing.
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Sharerogerm, while you've deciphered the good and bad posters, have you also pigeon holed the ones that have fallen in love with the stock and reject any opinion other than the one they want to hear?
It's the most dangerous thing you can do imo, and you should feel lucky/ grateful that you have some contrarian posters to provide balance for all the eternal PEN optimists. But what would I know?
PEN is very tradable, but not out of the woods by a long way imo.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareSo you can see both sides of the story matty.
I'm in the same boat having traded PEN from time to time.
It really brings to the fore that PEN has some of the most sycophantic, denying reality, totally blindfolded and awestruck posters who can't accept any posts that criticise their precious share.
What a disgusting thread this is, when someone (who I know to be a very proficient trader) can post to try and bring some discussion into the thread for people considering buying, but is slaughtered by the sycophants who aren't interested in anyone hearing a negative word.
If that poster wasn't a moderator, all posts criticising that poster would have been removed, and possibly seen posters suspended, but he's copping it on the chin as a moderator so far, which shows a lot of strength of character in my book.
Shame on many of you.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareAgree seuss.
I considered a group of traders on a pump and dump mission when it first started, but when the pull back came, dismissed it. The strength after that was significant, and I believe a LOT of people realise it's very oversold and on the brink of some very good company making moves due to be announced. Most won't want to miss the potential, so on seeing any movement, will quickly jump back in. That's no pump and dump.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareI know. Maybe I didn't explain myself very well.
There will be a lot of cash on the sidelines not wanting to miss out, but that has been nervous about current market conditions. Movement in stock price is enough to bring that money back in. Nothing to do with management, just investor psychology imo.
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Do you have a 2.7 million deposit for a new home?
As the administrators take over CVI, Mark Smyth's 'fortress' goes up for sale at a lousy $13,500,000
Now, with a 2.7million deposit, and interest rate of 7.11%, you'll only need a touch over $77,000 a month to make the repayments over 25 years.
Feeling sick enough yet?
Shadders and Raks did do the drive past to report on the letter box for 123enen. I remember it well from just after the EGM days.
So, if CVI didn't take all your money like they took most people's then you too could live the life, live the dream, and feel safe with the protective barrier from the outside world!
Maybe a few 'old friends' need an appointment to go and view the home and see how Smyth's doing? Is the dementia well advanced yet? Any house guests? Malcolm Johnson, Anton Tarkanyi, excelsior perhaps?
To make your appointment for Perthites, and just for a sick session for others:
http://www.domain.com.au/Property/For-Sale/House/WA/Mosman-Park/?adid=2008821829
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specific mention of Kalahari in the body of this report.
I hope someone out there can interpret this for us...
http://www.freehills.com/7686.aspx
ASIC releases updated policy on downstream acquisitions
06 December 2011
In brief
•ASIC has released a draft updated Regulatory Guide on downstream acquisitions of Australian companies that are subject to the takeover regime.
•The downstream acquisition exemption to the 20 per cent takeover rule applies where a bidder acquires a listed (upstream) company that holds more than 20 per cent of the shares in a (downstream) company that is subject to the Australian takeover regime.
•Despite the existence of the downstream acquisition exemption, ASIC says it may apply to the Takeovers Panel if (a) the acquisition of control of the downstream company was a ‘significant purpose’ of the upstream acquisition or (b) the downstream acquisition subverts or does not meet the policy basis for the downstream acquisition exemption.
•ASIC also sets out the circumstances in which it will expect an upstream bidder to make a follow-on downstream takeover bid.
ASIC releases updated policy on downstream acquisitions
ASIC has published a draft of its updated takeover Regulatory Guide on downstream acquisitions – 15 years after the last update.
The Downstream Acquisition Exemption
The Australian takeover regime contains a number of exemptions to the restriction on acquiring an interest in more than 20 per cent of the shares in an Australian company listed on the ASX (the 20 per cent rule). One of the exemptions operates where the interest in the (downstream) Australian company is acquired as a result of the person acquiring shares in an upstream company listed on the ASX or on a foreign exchange approved by ASIC (the Downstream Acquisition Exemption).
When might there be ‘unacceptable circumstances’?
Even if the Downstream Acquisition Exemption technically applies in a particular case, upstream bidders risk a declaration of ‘unacceptable circumstances' from the Takeovers Panel if they abuse the exemption.
ASIC has said it may consider applying to the Takeovers Panel for a declaration of ‘unacceptable circumstances’ if:
•acquisition of control of the downstream company was a ‘significant purpose’ of the upstream acquisition, and/or
•the downstream acquisition subverts or does not meet the policy basis for the downstream acquisition exemption (eg where the upstream company is listed in name only and is closely held).
In a similar vein, in the Leighton Holdings proceedings in 2010, the Takeovers Panel said that the policy of the Downstream Acquisition Exemption turns on whether the upstream acquisition was a mere ‘artifice’ with the true objective being the acquisition of the downstream interest.
What is ASIC’s approach if relief is required?
If the Downstream Acquisition Exemption is not available (eg because the upstream company is not listed on an approved foreign exchange or the ASX), the bidder for the upstream company will need to obtain relief from ASIC in order to avoid breaching the 20 per cent rule.
ASIC has said that, in deciding whether to grant relief, it will consider:
•whether control of the downstream company may be regarded as a significant purpose of the upstream acquisition,
•whether the downstream shares are a substantial part of the upstream company’s assets, and
•whether the bidder will obtain effective control of the downstream company as a result of the upstream acquisition.
When will ASIC insist that the bidder makes a downstream takeover bid?
If ASIC grants relief to a bidder, it may impose a number of conditions to that relief.
ASIC has said that it will generally require the bidder to make a downstream bid when:
•control of the downstream company appears to be a ‘significant’ purpose,
•the shares in the downstream company are a substantial part of the assets of the upstream company (generally speaking, at least 50 per cent of the assets), or
•effective control of the downstream company will be obtained.
If none of these circumstances exist, ASIC will not require the bidder to make a downstream bid but may impose conditions preventing the bidder from:
•acquiring further shares in the downstream company for a period, and
•exercising voting rights in the downstream company for a period.
In a limited number of cases, ASIC may also impose a sell-down or disposal condition.
If ASIC requires an upstream bidder to make a downstream takeover bid, it will normally require the consideration to be cash, in an amount that is not less than:
•the fair value ascribed to the downstream shares by an independent expert, or
•the ‘effective’ price of the downstream shares (that is, where the price effectively being offered to the upstream shareholders for the shares in the downstream company can be clearly determined from the upstream acquisition price).
As a practical example of the application of this relief regime, CGNPC Uranium Resources Co has been in discussions with Kalahari Minerals (a company listed on the Alternative Investment Market of the London Stock Exchange and the Namibian Stock Exchange – neither of which is an approved exchange for the purposes of the Downstream Acquisition Exemption). Kalahari Mineral’s key asset is a 42.74 per cent shareholding in the ASX-listed company Extract Resources. Extract Resources has been consulted by ASIC and has made submissions to ASIC about the terms and conditions of a possible downstream takeover bid for Extract Resources by CGNPC-URC if CGNPC-URC makes an upstream bid for Kalahari.
Frustration for bidders?
The frustration for potential upstream bidders remains that, in cases where the Downstream Acquisition Exemption is technically available but where it is conceivable that someone may allege that ‘unacceptable circumstances’ exist, there is no means of ensuring certainty for the bidder before it launches its upstream bid.
ASIC does not have the power to make a declaration as to the application of the law in a way that is binding on third parties. Similarly, the Takeovers Panel’s role is to create new rights and obligations and not to determine existing rights (a declaration of the law is not the creation of new rights).
An example is the 2010 hostile takeover bid by ACS for Hochtief (which owned 54.48 per cent of the shares in ASX-listed Leighton and, on some measures, the shares in Leighton comprised over 50 per cent of the assets of Hochtief). Although the Downstream Acquisition Exemption applied (as Hochtief was listed on the Frankfurt exchange – which has been approved by ASIC), there was very little ACS could have done before launching its bid for Hochtief to protect itself against the commencement of the proceedings involving Hochtief, Leighton and ASIC in the Takeovers Panel and a possible declaration of ‘unacceptable circumstances’.
Under the draft policy, it seems almost inevitable that these uncertainties will be exacerbated given the use of the phrase ‘a significant purpose’ which is, at the very least, open to different interpretations. This could capture a situation where the downstream shareholding was not the main asset of the upstream company. That result would undermine the very purpose of the exemption.
Availability of other exemptions
Finally, it is worth noting that ASIC states that it will not consider a downstream acquisition to be exempt from the 20 per cent rule merely because another exemption from the 20 per cent rule is available. This position is inconsistent with Parliament’s intention that at least some of the other exemptions to the 20 per cent rule would have broad application and, accordingly, would apply to downstream acquisitions that are not otherwise technically covered by the Downstream Acquisition Exemption.
If, for example, a scheme of arrangement or takeover bid is used to acquire an unlisted Australian company which holds more than 20 per cent of the shares in a listed Australian company, the exemptions for schemes of arrangement and for takeover bids should be available even though the Downstream Acquisition Exemption would not be available. Of course, if an upstream bidder was abusing these exemptions there could be a declaration of ‘unacceptable circumstances’.
The adoption of ASIC’s draft view would create a regulatory anomaly and would bring about the discriminatory treatment of companies taking part in control transactions involving unlisted upstream Australian companies as compared to those involving listed upstream Australian companies.
This article was written by Andrew Rich, Partner, Sydney and Alison Crocker, Solicitor, Sydney.
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ShareWe'd have loved to play with your mind GZ, but this one is just uniquely weird!
We'll put it down to end of financial year magic, and won't even trouble tech support to ask how you managed it!
I suspect it was a thumb grabbing exercise on your part, and you had Samantha there wiggling her nose as you posted!
Hmmm. That's my best conspiracy theory for now!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareI am guessing that the ASX are giving them grief again, because on page 5 of the presentation, they obviously had the numbers prepared, that were going to be released in time for the AGM. (Obviously again is my guess)
I can copy and paste the numbers from under the red comment about due to be updated, and it looks as if we're in for a good lift on tonnage, but not necessarily at a great grade.
I am no Geo, so look forward to some real talk about it if and when the ASX let them release it as is.
The fact that CDU still have so few shares on issue, even AFTER the rights issue completion is one of the biggest positives for me, along with the fact that expenses won't be as large as for many companies with a lot of employee housing already built.
Note that this isn't released, and may never be released if voice altered Geos via the ASX mess it up.
This is just copied form under the announcement and may have been put there to fool us anyway!
30.3mt @ 1.7% CuEq
(0.8% cut-off) Measured and Indicated
97.9mt @ 0.96% CuEq
(0.4% cut-off) Measured and Indicated
272.9mt @ 0.62% CuEq
(0.2% cut-off) Measured & Indicated and inferred
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ShareI find that post rather repugnant and cynical cusox.
Right now, imo it's a buy.
What does that have to do with anything else?
Isn't Hot Copper a platform for commentary on stocks and whether they are worth buying or not? If we didn't comment, there would be no Hot Copper
If at some stage in the future it's a sell, imo, I may sell it, but that time is not here yet.
Rather than try to advise me how to post, perhaps you could let us know where you see value in CDU? Do you wait for it to be proven and moving up again?
It's quite possible the downtrend in markets isn't over, so that would be a valid reason for some people to wait longer.
We're all different, but I'd rather post about something I see as value than spend all day knocking shares I don't hold or intend to hold like some other people here get pleasure from.
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ShareShadow, that is bull dust, and you know it.
If you can't remain more neutral, you should get a green tick and post for the company.
You simply can't give a value on it without ALL the information.
Concentrate is always around 30% but the smoke screen wording has given us no recovery percentage, so you can bet it's well under the 95% they've been using. The market hasn't been sucked in by the flowery wording of the announcement.- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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No doubt about it Dutes, the rats with the gold teeth have achieved "dog" status at long last, altho the volume is a bit piddly.
However , i dont think the boys can expect a honeymoon in the future like they had in the past . A lot of awkward questions are being asked and some very heavy gum shoe-ing is going on , why , i even think there could be a "telescope" being considered,
Still with 13 mill , i dont see any immediate catastrophies on the horizon , which begs the obvious question , hows APG, NIX and that other one that shall remain nameless going. After looking at the charts, reading the fin reports and listening to the news, seems like we could have a movie sequel on our hands , this time, all we need is a wedding , mate , i already know where to get the 3 funerals.
Cheers
OI NQ , how they hanging?
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Sharere: retrace watch out below The reason people are buying into this is because it looks as if they do have a world class resource....if that is the case this stock is very undervalued at current levels.
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ShareMaybe this sheds some light on it ............................
He was suspected of being Bendigo. Maybe the mods worked it out.
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:27 - 236 reads
Posted by diatribe
IP 203.51.xxx.xxx
Post #529197 - in reply to msg. #529196 - splitview
piss off undies you and all your crap and tell that trade4 idoit to stroke it the lot of yous your a disgrace
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:29 - 236 reads
Posted by bigdump
IP 210.49.xxx.xxx
Post #529199 - in reply to msg. #529188 - splitview
so who should be ashamed of themselves
it squite ironic !
Isn't talking to ones self a form of madness
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:30 - 246 reads
Posted by diatribe
IP 203.51.xxx.xxx
Post #529201 - in reply to msg. #529199 - splitview
fark u 2 fool ramper
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:35 - 242 reads
Posted by trade4profit
IP 144.139.xxx.xxx
Post #529204 - in reply to msg. #529197 - splitview
diatribe...
Here are the posts you refer to "6 - 8 weeks ago"...
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Subject copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 17/01/05 16:17 - 132 reads
Posted by bendigo
Post #486328 - start of thread - splitview
Good announcement today
Promising new company
Good board
Good territory
go the ASX website & check out the announcment.
Cheers
Bendigo
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Subject re: copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 17/01/05 16:32 - 112 reads
Posted by NR
Post #486342 - in reply to msg. #486328 - splitview
all ready on them bendigo......awaiting further annonucements.......
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Subject re: copper strike.. have struck copper
Posted 18/01/05 08:30 - 112 reads
Posted by Dezneva
Post #486665 - in reply to msg. #486328 - splitview
Yep, I agree. I know the people as well. They have a whole heap of old TEC ground. Its a great hit. and I think they are continuing the drilling.
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These were the first 3 posts ever on CSE.
Although Dezneva only posted "...I know the people as well...", I can see how you may have remebered that as "...the boss being a good bloke..."
Problem is, it was Bendigo he was replying to and not you!
How do you explain that?
Cheers!
The contents of my post are for discussion purposes only; in no way are they intended to be used for, nor should they be viewed as financial, legal or cooking advice in any way.
Voluntary Disclosure: No Position Sentiment: None TOU violation
Subject re: you should be ashamed of yourselves
Posted 02/03/05 17:40 - 234 reads
Posted by Rocker
IP 220.253.xxx.xxx
Post #529215 - in reply to msg. #529204 - splitview
well picked up T4P
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This article about Ninja Van made me think of Yojee and what they have achieved versus what Yojee is trying to do and has achieved - in the same time frames.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/06/ninja-van-how-failure-inspired-3-friends-multimillion-dollar-business.html
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ShareI get your drift joewolf.
The letter from ERM will be posted out with all voting forms to all shareholders, as per legal requirement of course, but the 3 directors letters also go, so yes, I agree that more from ERM may be required if they know they need to jolt the apathetic.
Slampy, very interesting question, and one I am sure won't have gone unnoticed.
Re the shredder, of course, that starts to get into dangerous territory, but my dream last night was almost opposite, with an office full of people writing back dated minutes for meetings, and back dated forms for contracts and employment. It was a hectic dream, and I hope there's no reality in it at all.
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ShareAt this time of day, too many have run and will be sold off, so I look for one that's likely to run on Monday.
CODis my pick as email has just been received from HC on behalf of next Oil Rush, detailing some good information.
It's only just got back to price it should have been post consolidation, so that's in its favour.
Very little to sell, I like that, as it will move quickly.
Many won't have received the email yet as they're at work, etc.
Read more here.
http://www.nextoilrush.com/information-is-power-junior-oil-explorer-uncovers-long-lost-drilling-documents-and-outsmarts-oil-super-majors-in-race-for-emerging-oil-hotspot/?utm_source=HCMO
Looks good for next week. Be prepared!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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Sharere: it goes like this? Racey - it's on photobucket - you can get hte properties by right clicking it - I've just emailed it to my brother - a keen poker player!
Salty - howsabout an email update please imo!!- *Removed* this post has been removed from public view
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ShareWhat a fascinating thread reading back 3 months!
Lots of reading today!
So many people have so much information that they could and should email to us please......
[email protected]
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