See, you know you're avoiding the issue. It's not difficult for...

See, you know you're avoiding the issue. It's not difficult for anyone here to see. You know that if you apply your logic to JK, that you also have to apply it to ASX/ASIC/Visa. But you're trolling, so you'll never actually say it. I can keep pinning you in a corner, but we both know you'll refuse to answer and deflect away from the blatant double-standard.

The reason I keep saying "by your standards" is that they're a very obtuse, black and white way of viewing it (which you are, as mentioned, only applying in one direction). The truth is of course much more complex.

Yes, there's a presumption of innocence from a legal viewpoint. That's the reason that ASIC couldn't stop JK from setting up a demerger and moving the company's assets overseas, out of reach of the various entities suing him and us. I'm sure they'd have liked to, but they have to operate within the law, and if they didn't have basis to stop it, they couldn't. JK of course has spent millions of our dollars (shareholders, not you, just the rest of us) on lawyers who read those laws and then found a way around them, to get our assets overseas, out of reach for when the legal system finally resolves the issue.

And that presumption of innocence is highly important. With the evidence presented, I've made up my mind. I'm convinced. But I'm also strongly against JK being treated as guilty by the legal system before a verdict is reached. That does not protect him from the court of public opinion. It doesn't proclude me from making up my mind, nor declaring my opinion and rationale to whomever I feel like. To say "you can't say he did it, you have to presume innocence" is a horrific misstatement of the actual principle.

Likewise, you can come up with ludicrous conspiracy theories about HC joining ASIC, ATO, AFR, Visa and ASX in their weird pointless collusion to target a small company no one has ever heard of. You can state these opinions even you clearly don't believe, because all you're trying to do is sow chaos and disorder, either because you're just having fun trolling, or because you stand to benefit from JK's muddying of the waters, either directly or indirectly.