The conservative Christian elites Trump surrounds himself with have always been more clear-eyed about his lack of religiosity than they’ve publicly let on. In a September 2016 meeting with about a dozen influential figures on the religious right—including the talk-radio host Eric Metaxas, the Dallas megachurch pastor Robert Jeffress, and the theologian Wayne Grudem—the then-candidate was blunt about his relationship to Christianity. In a recording of the meeting obtained by The Atlantic, the candidate can be heard shrugging off his scriptural ignorance “I don’t know the Bible as well as some of the other people”and joking about his inexperience with prayer “The first time I met Mike Pence, he said, ‘Will you bow your head and pray?’ and I said, ‘Excuse me?’ I’m not used to it.”' At one point in the meeting, Trump interrupted a discussion about religious freedom to complain about Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska and brag about the taunting nickname he’d devised for him. “I call him Little Ben Sasse,” Trump said. “I have to do it, I’m sorry. That’s when my religion always deserts me.”
and joking about his inexperience with prayer “The first time I met Mike Pence, he said, ‘Will you bow your head and pray?’ and I said, ‘Excuse me?’ I’m not used to it.”'
