(Extract) FRAN KELLY: Let's talk about the technologies you’re banking on. Some of which you concede, and it’s part of the plan, they're not there in terms of being a cheap enough yet to deploy, to be effective enough. But you're banking on those global trends and those future trends. You've added ultra low-cost solar to the five priority technologies already identified, which are hydrogen batteries, green steel, aluminium and carbon capture and storage. When will they all be commercially viable? Hydrogen, for example, when will, according to your modelling which we haven't seen yet, hydrogen be produced at $2 per kilo?
ANGUS TAYLOR: Well we've laid that out absolutely in the plan. In fact, I put a slide up yesterday showing those time frames…
FRAN KELLY: So when will it be?
ANGUS TAYLOR: So there, so there's two different parts to this. The blue hydrogen, which is produced from gas and the CO2 is sequestered and it's a very pure stream of CO2, which makes it low cost to sequester. We're at a point now where we know we can do projects under $2 a kilogram. Now we've got to get to scale, so we can do that very quickly…
FRAN KELLY: So when we'll be at scale?
ANGUS TAYLOR: Green hydrogen, which is made from renewables, from electricity, but it can be renewables - it's an electrolysis process. That we expect to be getting down to the $2 mark in the 2030s. So we're investing heavily in this. There's lots of different ways we can bring the capital cost down. We've just invested in three of the biggest electrolyser's in the world over recent months, and working with…
FRAN KELLY: Well, Twiggy Forrest has invested in it.
ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, he hasn't yet, but, but he's obviously doing a lot of work in this space. But we have actually invested and we're building electrolysers. We're getting on with it. Those projects are world leading projects. They'll help us to understand how we can continue to drive down the cost of the electrolysers, the plant that goes around it, drive down the cost of the renewables that supplies them. That's why the $15 a megawatt-hour target for solar is so crucial because it can help us to get that cost of hydrogen down to where we need it to get.
FRAN KELLY: In your plan so far, I think, I may have this detail wrong, but I think it's a 111 million tonnes of emissions from fossil fuels across the electricity, transport, agriculture industries will be offset by soil sequestration, which you've mentioned, also, carbon capture and storage. Speaking of Twiggy Forrest, we spoke to him here about this on the program just two weeks ago. Let's have a listen.
TWIGGY FORREST: So Angus and I've had a chat, and I have agreed to not say carbon capture and storage fails 19 out of 20 times. To compromise, I've said, I've agreed I'll say, it fails, and correctly, at least nine out of 10 times. So I wouldn't be banking our kid's future on something which is a proven failure, Fran.
FRAN KELLY: So that's Andrew Forrest, one of the very people you're banking on to help fund low emission technology - don't believe in part of your plan. Has he just blown the lid on carbon capture and storage, it doesn't work?
ANGUS TAYLOR: No. It's time for him to have a look at some of the projects that are working. There's 60 projects…
FRAN KELLY: But he's had a chat with you. Or are you going to convince him?
ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, hang on. Let's, let's actually get to this. I mean, he's an iron ore producer, and good on him for doing what he's doing, but this is a different area. There's 60 projects around the world, 30 in operation. Industrial capture of CO2 and sequestration is happening at a rapid rate. The United States is where the most of its happening, backed in by Joe Biden, who said he's doubling down on it; backed in by the IPCC, the IEA, who all say this is part of the answer. There's no doubt about it. Now, no, no single technology's the whole answer in this.
FRAN KELLY: They all say it's part of the answer, but they're not saying it's been proven and working to scale yet. That's the problem.
ANGUS TAYLOR: Well, it absolutely…
FRAN KELLY: It's taking a lot of years to prove up, hasn't it?
ANGUS TAYLOR: It absolutely is and like solar took us 50 years to get to the point where we're seeing this rapid deployment. The good news about carbon capture and storage is we've been sequestering CO2 under the ground for many, many, many years and the oil and gas industry has been doing that for a long time. So it's not new, you know. This is the important point. Now, we're doing it different way, a different scale, and we're learning as we go. But we know now there's many projects that are working around the world. This is part of the answer. Now, there's a lot of people out there who want to kill off industries. Their real goal in this is to kill off industries - they want absolute zero, not net zero. That's not the Australian way. We see these industries as crucial to our future as they've been crucial to our past. They have to adapt, there's no doubt about that. They have to continue to evolve in the products they supply and the way they supply it and we're working closely with industry leaders to do exactly that. This is part of the mix.
BPH Price at posting:
5.9¢ Sentiment: Hold Disclosure: Held
(20min delay)