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"God did NOT send a pre-existing one from heaven" Wotsup, I am...

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tonio

913 Posts.

07/03/20

14:03

Post #: 43358896
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Originally posted by wotsup ↑

It was foreseen and prophesized that Jesus would be successful in what the Father had sent him from heaven to accomplish.

Jesus could never have failed

.
He could have failed, but God could see that Jesus with the choices he would made, would not fail.
Just because God foresaw his efforts, does not mean he couldn't have failed, hence why he was tempted via the opposition.

God did NOT send a pre-existing one from heaven, the likes of Eph 3:9, the plan the Word, glory, hid IN God is what came down from heaven, just as per the Isa 55:10-11 says.

First up, your ignoring the Key theme of my post which was in answer to your false claim, use of the Isa ch 55.
You were trying to claim, Jesus was The Word that came down, ref in Isa.

When in fact, he was the results, produced, by SOME of those words of Yahweh's that came down.
You tried to use this to twist the meaning of Jesus remaining the same.
---
Had you pay attention to my clear messages on this free will matter, you would have noticed, I was NOT arguing for or against free will and I was in fact addressing it on the hypothetical aspect.
IF one had free will, the fact that God could for see what the man may do with his free will, did not or does not remove the fact that, what the man did and was foreseen, does not remove the man from using he free will.
Just because the free will actions were foreseen, doesn't nullify it was his free will actions.
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Wotsup,

It was foreseen and prophesized that Jesus would be successful in what the Father had sent him from heaven to accomplish.Your losing the plot = What was foreseen =
The actions, moves, that Jesus himself would decide on and would take.
Jesus explained many times, he wasn't doing his will, but the God and Fathers.

Jesus also repeatedly says, he couldn't do the things he did on his own.
And that is NOT because of ANY pre-emptying of himself as He didn't pre-exist to have anything to empty, Luke 2:40 & 52, Due 18:18 for example.

YOU need to pay attention to the following;
Col ch 15 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of creation:-> (A Jesus to be in the future, was God's first thought, plans, know as logos and glory).Because in Him were created the things all things in the heavens, and that are upon earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through (on account of, by reason of for the sake of, because of) him, and for him:
And he is before all things (as per the context shown in 1:15, God's first plan) , and the things all things in -> (the plan of the one TO BE) Him consist (exist?).

18 - and he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, firstborn out from the dead, so that MIGHT BE in all things He holding preeminence.In the beginning, God had plans and the first of these was for a Jesus to be = the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14, the Jesus to be also pre-slain Rev 13:8 and IN this plan, God then came up with all other creation plans and he Alone, By Himself created all these things Isa 44:24 and they were create IN Jesus, in the context of the one TO BE.

In the mind and plans of God, the Jesus to be was the driver, reason for all these creations, including us, for the one to be.
Had Jesus sinned, God would not be beholding to raise him (Acts) and Jesus would NOT then have the Literal preeminence that he now has and this is clearly shown to be, above Col 1:18.

Tonio, YOU are ignoring the simple fact, Jesus was the 2nd Adam.
Are YOU getting that, 2nd Adam = man.
What your proposing is, the 1st Adam, like the second, could not fail and the Bible says otherwise.

The only difference between 1st and 2nd is, one was of the dust, earthly and the other of the Heavenly, but both OF God.

What you Tonio are doing is, belittling, lowering, the huge achievements of the Man Jesus.
Here is a hypothetical for you, satan effectively made perfect and yet failed.
So he accuses God,.... if you supposedly made me so perfect, then it is your fault I failed.
So God says, OK then, I will show you, I will make one lower than You (conception) and I will show you, that with my guidance, relying on me, they he will do what you failed to do, even though you were made much better.

Expand

"God did NOT send a pre-existing one from heaven"

Wotsup,
I am sorry to tell you but once again you are wrong,
Jesus says

John 6:38
King James Bible
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

"YOU need to pay attention to the following;
Col ch 15 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of creation:-> (A Jesus to be in the future, was God's first thought, plans, know as logos and glory).Because in Him were created the things all things in the heavens, and that are upon earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through (on account of, by reason of for the sake of, because of) him, and for him:
And he is before all things (as per the context shown in 1:15, God's first plan) , and the things all things in -> (the plan of the one TO BE) Him consist (exist?). "

Wotsup,
It is nonsense to say that you know what God's first thoughts and plans where.
That Colossians verse is saying that all things where created through Jesus and that is why he is called the
firstborn of creation..

through does not mean (on account of, by reason of for the sake of, because of)

In Greek dia with the genitive never, ever ,ever means (on account of, by reason of for the sake of, because of)
It always means through.
I have told you all this before and referenced Strong's concordance to verify it but you keep repeating the lie and
keep adding to scripture what is not there.

Wotsup,
Which is correct?

(a) You are building your house on account of a builder
(b) You are building your house by reason of a builder
(c) You are building your house for the sake of a builder
(d) You are building your house because of a builder
(e) You are building your house through a builder
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