Greetings mate,
Just putting aside our finger pointing at each other for a minute and I don't say this to mock one, but what appears to be the problem is, You like I once was, are caught up in the likes of 2 Thes 2:10-11.
And no matter what verses that are put before you, which go totally against what you follow, you will almost never be able to see WHAT their actually trying to tell you.
To get passed it, pretty much means, going to war and naturally, one has to examine the Bible as to How one is going to get passed it, unlock the ????
I think I covered part of what I was up against in my last post to Zbusc, have a peak as it might given you a little more insight into how and where I have come from or approached this subject.
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Your reference to me and Mr G = YOU mate, have just made a huge assumption with zero to even imply, what you have written.
"Have you not read", the Man Jesus died and Da God CANNOT die?
Tonio, your words, message here, appears to be suggesting, Jesus did NOT Die????????????????????????????????
SURELY, I don't need to point out, the IMPLICATIONS to you, IF that is what you believe, SURELY NOT?
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God CANNOT die? ........And you say --> God can do anything --> Wotsup agrees, but we are not talking about what he can do, but what He or the Bible says and God as in the Almighty God and Father, the most High, is not referenced as ever dying = full stop, end of that one.
Num 23:19 - God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
That includes, he cannot be, is NOT, part God and part man.
John 4:24 Spirit the God (is).....................and as their is ONLY one Spirit from which all power, gifts etc come from, His Spirit has to be The Holy Spirit.
Otherwise, there is another Spirit, the Holy, which is more powerful than --> Spirit the God is.
God is Spirit, it does not say he is part man and need I remind you -> John 4:23 - But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippersshall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Worship also covers, communications.
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God can do anything
He can send his Son, who--> the Father calls "true God and eternal life"
Where or what verses says, the Father calls Jesus the "true God"?
Jesus says --> John 17:3 This Now is the eternal life, that they Should know YOU, the ONLY True God, and whom You have sent, Jesus Christ.
Jesus in NO WAY is even implying, He is part of this True God here and neither DO the following words, reason for the Book of John --> John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ (Anointed ONE), the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Nothing whatsoever, suggesting you Must believe Jesus is this True God, mentioned here.
God gave these names, as the names mean, represent God's plans, role for Jesus as well, or partially, representing God.
Jesus = God as in the Almighty God and Father is -> Salvation OR God saves and obviously, his plan before the world was for doing this, was going to be through a future Jesus, a 2nd Adam, man.
Christ = The Anointed one, as per prophesied and not to mention, the anointing, Spirit descending to him, a sign for John, so he knew who was the Son of God.
He was also anointed, to Enable him to bring the Good News = The Word into the world, AFTER his Baptism, which is WHEN he was sent into the world.
A clear example of his sending and timing, is shown by none other than Jesus himself in John 17:18.
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Jesus is called eternal life you say = AND that was God's plan through whom he would bring eternal life through, hence God is referred to as our saviour and naturally Jesus become our saviour.
Had Jesus not achieved what he did, he would not have met the mark and would not be then, be literally holding all things together as he is now doing.
And the verses supporting this, are LOUD and clear in the Bible, should You bother to check them out.
This eternal life, Water, Bread etc that Jesus was giving, WAS given to Him by the Almighty God and Father when he gave Jesus, "The Word" = the Word of God --> John 12:49 which is also Glory John 17:22.
John 1:1 In Beginning was The Word --> Titus 1:2, 2 Tim 1:9 & Eph 3:9 = God's own purpose and Hidden IN HIM --> and the Word --> Titus, 2 Tim & Eph was with The God and GOD was the Word
1:2 The same, this, it was in the Beginning (before time eternal) with God.
Hence --> In HIm (God) life was --> Titus, 2 Tim & Eph and this life --> Titus, 2 Tim & Eph was the light of men = the word of God, plan, was the light of men Psa 119:105 -
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1Cor 15:47
47The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Lets NOT forget, over LOOK the whole TRUTH he Chum;
46 - Howbeit that wasnot first (2nd Adam, Man) which is spiritual, but that which is natural(1st Adam - Man); and afterward that which is spiritual. --> 2nd Adam, Man, Jesus.
There was NOT a Man, 2nd Adam in heaven, Hence, a man pre-existing could Not have physically come down from heaven.
A man, Body, Soul and Spirit, do NOT pre-exist in heaven, otherwise he could NOT be a 2nd Adam = same as the first before the 1st's said fall, but not made of dust, earthly.
Otherwise, Identical, hence why God said to Moses, God will raise this future one, as sure enough, for 20 plus Years, God raised Jesus, gave him the Word, which is also Spirit of which Jesus was GIVEN without measure.
So Jesus then had, Spirit/Word/Light within him without measure, Giving Him Life within himself and THEN, he was sent into the world.
The Jesus that does not change, man, made it VERY clear, He was NOT a Spirit.
Hence Tonio, he could not have pre-existed in heaven, other than, a plan as per Eph 3:9, hidden IN God.
So then Tonio --> Did the plan become flesh?
OR did the one that made the plan, had the plan, Become Flesh?
TWO simple questions, can YOU answer them?
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The Plan came down from Heaven, to the Angel, to Mary.....................etc.
Jesus --> I, the manifestation of my Almighty God and Fathers, plan for salvation hidden with IN Him, known as the Bread, Water, Glory etc, is what came from heaven.
Just as the rain comes down, so shall MY WORD, the Word be, to produce The Bread etc. Isa 55:8 and onward's.
