Sunny I agree that the maufacturers will probably just decide,...

Sunny I agree that the maufacturers will probably just decide, "hey, it is time to expand, ramp up and buy" But you know in the past mainly slowdowns were a result of a bit of exuberance, inflation goes up, CB's raise rates, we all take a breath, re-rate and start inching up again. But I do believe that this is differant. If is differant because the there is no money to buy things with. Seriously, where is the $1trillion plus of TARP gone? In too paying down debt and plugging holes. Heck, Rudd is even helpping car dealers with $2bil! So, until the finance world sorts itself out and is willing to lend, both moms and dads will not buy new cars and jewellry and electronics (cue the stats from someone that says otherwise...) and thus the flow on demand for raw materials will not be there. Debt is death right now. Listen Heinz in the US this week went from refinancing its debt from 6.7% to over 15.5%! How recession proof are ketchup and TV dinners! Now, think about refinancing PNA.....

Copper down again. Gold down again. PNA is a great operation and a great play on copper and gold. But they are out of sync with the cycle - entering production when the supply is high (all-time>?) and prices in the toilet. High debt when the price and risk of debt is soaring.

They are in a squeeze. A bit of positive DJIA won't save them.