The point is that neither of them are a true HnS imo.. the head and right shoulder on both examples lack the dynamic of challenging the 1st shoulder on the LH side, this is where the dynamic begins for this pattern (the 3 pivots are all related in a challenge to go higher) but not in these cases the heads are 100% above the shoulders, over 100% in ENV case..there was no challenge in going a lot higher...
The point is that neither of them are a true HnS imo.. the head...
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