Free Will

Originally posted by wafflehead ↑

Okay, throughout this post you kind of state a position and then counter that position and it's effective in establishing just how confusing for everybody this notion of Free Will is.

Obviously Free Will exists beyond religion, but religion is its context here and they are the ones who promote it as a means by which was are identified as saint or sinner. Upon the exercise of Free Will we are delivered to heaven or hell. Then of course there are those who imagine some form of passive faith is a get out of hell card.

As for religion and its many foibles, we are dealing with very ancient religions here, for the most part. The dominant religions and their aftermath stem from many, many hundreds of years past. What human institution has managed to remain relevant for 2000 years. It's an impossible notion.

Free Will is not a solution. It is an indicator of the inner state of an individual and then who has the wherewithal to judge its appropriate implementation?

Can we say that "will" is an inner force to enable the doing of a particular action? I think we can, but if I may add to this a little, it is generally only seen in action when it is employed in decisions contrary to the general behaviour of an individual because they have opened themselves to a higher ideal than they previously had. They are going against habit and type.

It can be invoked consciously or far more commonly is simply part of the automatic and habitual processes of life. I guess the point is that you invoke Free Will to help develop a moral, loving, self-sacrificing self and the expense of the selfish self and if you do that long enough you form good habits and good habits are just as valuable as a Free Will that you are employing to make yourself a better person.

Life goes on and people behave as they must in a basically deterministic way. That's an option and it might still be Free Will, because you could ver well know that you are capable to behave in a kinder, fairer, more loving way but you choose not to.

Free will however could act independently of habitual inner habits including the ordinary ego, moral beliefs, emotional, thinking functions etc and some external conditions.
It cannot act contrary to the Laws of The Universe and so is actually "only" relatively free. And there it is in a nutshell.

However, this would require a separate "higher self" in direct contact with genuine conscience which is sufficiently developed and present in order for this impartiality to oneself to be possible.
Clearly this is exceptional and very uncommon. Couldn't agree more, but it can happen by baby steps, too. I'm a lazy prick and I know I should help my wife more than I do, so I force myself internally kicking and screaming to get off my ass and do more and bit by bit I have trained myself to almost be a reasonable husband.

Make sure not to tell this to anyone who thinks they are the master of their own destiny or you will be crucified. Maybe not the master, but you can have a turn at holding the tiller.

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"....
it is generally only seen in action when it is employed in decisions contrary to the general behaviour of an individual because they have opened themselves to a higher ideal than they previously had. They are going against habit and type.
"

What about say an elite athlete, mountain climber, professional fisherman, working mother !, surgeon, tycoon etc who spend countless hours with extraordinary efforts to fulfill their chosen aim ?
Surely that is will ... but is it free will.

I wonder if you are placing too much emphasis on the role of will for making "correct" moral and desirable choices ?
Doesn't this show your desire for this "correctness" is not an example of an independent "free" will ?

".... I'm a lazy prick and I know I should help my wife more than I do, so I force myself .... "

Well done, I always had faith in you.
You are so lucky not to be one of those husbands who also manages to do the right thing thanks to fear of his wife's dynamic disapproval !

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