how clean is ect?, page-2

Hello Dis.

I understand you initial comment, but there after you tend to confuse conflict and sully.

Your questions and scenarios are unfortunately very self conflicting, probably due to misconceptions that you may have picked up here and have incorporated into your mind set.

You seem to have filled in some huge info gaps with throw away nursery rhymes ( nursery rhymes are based upon an ounce of fact and a ton of mythology )

IMHO, you would benefit from info on the esi website, then google lots on coal,,, calorific values, the carbon foot prints of idgcc, igcc, gas, and coal fired power stations.

I would try to base your research on the basic Newtonian laws....the ones that state...you don't get stuff for nuttin' but you can move it around to balance the books.

So that when you oxidise a tonne of carbon ( completely burn hydrocarbons in air ) you get pretty much the same result.

That tonne of carbon becomes about 2 and a half tonne of CO2

There is not many free lunchs in the world of energy.



Its not created,,, it's not destroyed...energy absorbing impurities can be removed from the efficiency mix efficiently or otherwise.

Oxygen has it's limitations too....after all, air is basically 4/5ths nitrogen and only 1/5 oxygen.

Also accept that even cutting edge thermodynamics loving physicists do not completely understand the role that carbon plays in the oxidisation of hydrocarbons.

...many people consider that pure hydrogen is the end play, but it has little oompf when compared to hydrocarbon energetics.

Never discount that age old empirical fact that super heated steam when passed over red hot carbon ( as the catalyst ), splits water atoms into diatomic hydrogen and oxygen ions.

If you think of water, as the relatively stable ASH of hydrogen ( yep water is ash ) and how much energy is required to remove that ash ( wet as it may be) from a semi solid hydrocarbon like lignite, and then understand that lignite is more like peat and compost than anthracite or diamond, you are on the road to appreciating the processes exploited within the patented Coldry process..

Build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door.

Here's some interesting info in layman's terms that should help to provoke thought
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Black coal is stable, transportable and has for centuries been exploited,,,because it never burnt and sunk ships.

It was never as prevalent as it's younger low rank cousins and has been more highly exploited to date....why ?

Why would you burn a green tree it there was a dry dead one at hand..

Burn a tonne black coal ore coldry in a power station and add about the same co2 to the mix that gas does...it powders up and burns with very little ''energy in''

Coal dust as a form of cheap energy really got me interested in the mid 60's, when the latest issue of Popular Mechanics turned up with the front page sporting a picture of a typical Blondie West coast US model carrying a light weight ( about 50lb ) 140 hp jet engine in a shopping bag ( the ol' string bag ) stating that it could do 20 mile to the pound of coal dust in a mid sized yank tank.

In those days, Menzies was selling our black coal to the japs for pennies per ton...

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For the last coupla hundred years in particular, Black coal has been dug up and shipped near and far.

24 gigajoules per tonne (24gj/t ) is the bench mark.

80 to 250 bux a tonne is the price range for bituminous (black coal ) .

It was cheap at first,,,but got dearer with supply and demand.

Brown coal reserves have only ever been of real benefit if the resource could be used in situ...say 48 hrs from scoop to dust to smoke...This is why the Latrobe valley is a power producing region. and why lignite has no real off site market...Latrobe Valley is close enough to power Consumers to make it viable....whilst energy lost to grid resistance and leakage ( the biggest joule thief of all ) is about 25%, it was always going to be cheaper than say building the power stations a hundred or more km closer, in the Yarra Valley and trucking in brown coal.

World wide,,,Lignite ranges from a few cents a tonne in commercial quantities right up to the commodore pulling 1 tonne 8x5 trailer retail load price of ( if you are wearing rubber thongs and a flannelette shirt for locals discount).... about 8 bux (a tonne).

That 8x5 trailer will give you 8gJ of potential energy or a retail comparison price of 1 dollar/gigajoule...

How much energy/work does a gigajoule represent to you and me in every day comparisons that we can comprehend I hear you say ?

Well a gigajoule worth of unleaded or diesel is roughly half a tank load in the commodore or the pajero...say ..35 bux for THAT retail gigajoule....

lpg...say 20 bux a gJ..

The briquette industry initiated changes to the transportability problems of brown coal generations ago, with it's energy intensive river polluting heat and squeeze process..it can still be seen in limited use in the coking industry right now.

Go down to the valley and fill the 8x5 trailer up with any briquettes ( takes up half as much room, gives you about twice as many gigajoules as the brown coal coz you aint carting over half a tonne of water ),,,but sets you back 380 bux......for about 16 gigajoules

Brown coal is roughly 1/4 to 1/2 as energetic, 2 to 4 times more polluting,,but,,, up to 100 times cheaper...

This is where coldry wins...

That heat that has always stopped brown coal from being transported is harnessed in the coldry refining process..

So little energy is needed in the refining process.

It turns fairly useless untransportable crud that should never be burnt in the first place, into high calorific value, transportable, lowered ash lowered CO2 emission fuel...you see...a lot of the carbon foot print in brown coal comes from the current energy intensive brown coal refining processes....

An easy to understand comparison would be...

Cured red gum burns with low ash and good heat in the home furnace.... freshly cut red gum creates little heat lots of ash, lots of smoke,,,

If you throw the green log in on top of the cured stuff that's burning well,,,, sure the green log will dry out as it burns,,,but the fire mass is now running compromised, using a lot of heat to char the green wood...less heat more smoke more ash.....

Wood cures at no more than a coupla inches a month in your sheltered wood pile,,,,there is no ( significantly detectable ) exothermic reactive properties at work.

But brown coal is like the green wood

Coldry is like the cured wood,,,

Curing/ drying, wood uses little energy and a lot of time.

Manufacturing Coldry uses little energy and little time due to the excited/harnessed/controlled exothermic reactive properties incorporated in the patented Coldry process.

The green log on top of the dry log principle is the same concept and process the brown coal stations use now...

Brown coal out of the pit just don't burn hot enough.

It is totally criminal from a resource and environmental perspective....

It's not different in the overall concept from the basic briquette manufacturing process either...

Power is consumed from the brown coal power stations at the briquette factory to process ( some are cooked ) and compress brown coal....only now,, the moisture that was steamed off into the atmosphere at the power station ( remember steam has a massive carbon foot print) is now squeezed out and piped off,,polluting fresh waterways.

During the last coupla hundred years, the more stable coals were the easy to exploit target

... Black ( high ranking ) coals become very expensive on spot markets in boom times.

Supply and high demand, in all but readjustment episodes records this in roughly 10 yr cycles.

Low ranking coals such as lignite are of huge interest to the smart proactive industrial developing 5 yr planners to our north.

They appreciate lignites' potential as a cheap unexploited crude energy resource that is about to grow wheels and legs.

They will be the first to exploit and develop the coldry concept.

When they identify a leading edge, they fly with it.

Not a free lunch ,,,but if you own the farm and the restaurant chain it supplies,,, you tend to have more steak dinners on the house than most.

As for the 10% Valley mix theory...read some guff I recently posted for nursery.

cheers rd