Hansel I'm just generalizing when I say Penumbra is about 6...

Hansel I'm just generalizing when I say Penumbra is about 6 months away from first production I don't recall seeing anything about March/April 2012.
As far as a JV for DeWitts Don Turvey mentioned spare capacity at a mine now owned by Glencore which Don Turvey set up whilst working with BHP. Koofontaine or something like that. Don's exact comments were that they were doing very well to just keep it running at about 30 per cent capacity as they are very short of dirt. I think that they would both already be talking to one another.