Greetings,
Now we have been through this before, you don't address counter verses I put up, answer them or at least give counter verses to say why what I say can't work.
And to top it off, you have a little pip, then Vanish.
I will endeavor to give you a brief in this area BECAUSE it is much bigger than people realize and it has numerous branches that one NEEDS to grasp.
One hast to come also from the Hebrew Roots as John was and referred to in the OT, He was to make the way, path clear for Almighty God & Father who was about to send the one who was going to fulfill, complete his plan. Mal 3:1.
John up to 1:13 is without question, first recapping how things are, were etc already as in OT times.
The Key purpose or a major key was, to introduce The Eternal life giving Word of Almighty God's, The Word of Life 1 John 1:1 and Isa 55:8-11.
John 1:4 In Him (Almighty God) was life and this life is in His Word, 1 Peter 1:23 You are Born again by the word of God, the incorruptible SEED.
This eternal life giving word 1:4 was the light of men in OT times, it wasn't "about" to come into the world (1:9) as it was already in the world Psa 119:105, but the finalization of this plan, or latter stages of it, was yet to be fulfill, when the times were fulfilled Gal 4:4.
Grasp this and believe it;
God (Almighty, the true God) who at sundry times and in divers manners (check your OT) spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets.
Hath in these last days (and NOT before), spoken unto us by his Son, Heb 1:1-2 and John 1:14.
Example of various ways - The Spirit of the LORD "said" unto me AND, The Word of the LORD "said" unto me = Spirit and Word ARE one in the same (Almighty God & Fathers) and confirmed by Jesus who WAS speaking the Father words of eternal life, John 6:68 and 6:63.
No you don't need Greek because everyone's understanding of the meaning of word is pretty much the same. (Hebrew does however more branches).
Now then, Logos is used over 300 times in the NT and your trying to tell me that we need to abandon the "clear and obvious" meaning that the Bible unquestionably shows so we can create a mystery God = May God help those that do.
One does NOT need to be a scholar to recognize beyond doubt, that your Word starts out within in you, part of You.
Take an Architect for an example, he is going to produce a sky rise building, he sits down and THINKS of how he wants it to look, then thinks and plans the design requirements and then it gets built.
His thinking, design etc that was in him before it came out of him was, is part of his creation before expressed out into Word, drawings etc.
He had "expectations", "reason", thought etc and there is no way on earth can you tell me with all honesty that this inner plan etc is not His creation, part of him AND him.
Our body has many members/parts which amount to a one of person.
Logos = It is a Greek word meaning "a ground", "a plea", "an opinion", "an expectation", "word", "speech", "account", "to reason", "thought".
Example of this inner thought, creation - Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
He had Jesus slain before the foundation of the world Rev 13:8
Jesus in the mind, plan and thoughts of Almighty God and Father, was the Beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14.
Jesus in the mind, plan and thoughts of God was the firstborn of creation Col 1:15.
1:1 In the beginning was this plan and thoughts, they were with God (and the Greek, the truth) And God (this same God referenced here) WAS the word.
1:2 The same, it, this (plan, thought) was with God.
Now you need to pay attention to what Jesus said around 4 times in John and that was, He was speaking the words of his Father and He said, "they are Spirit and Life". God is "a" Spirit and that Spirit is The Holy Spirit = Spirit and Word are one in the same and The ONE Identity = Almighty God and Father John 1:1.
But lets take a serious look at John 1:1-2 as it is in three parts and the latter part has been twisted which misleads the reader.
In the beginning was the Word - Note the finish here, Word BECAUSE "that" becomes the beginning, topic of the second part - and the "Word" was with (The) God (Almighty), again note the finish word/subject here, God and this is the key word subject of the last part - And "God" (this SAME God already mentioned) IS The Word. (NOT, the Word was God.
1:2
Note - The finish in part three above is, word/subject is the Beginning of 1:2, The SAME, it, this = The Word, was in the beginning with God = The plan, thoughts, design was in the beginning with God before Gens creation account.
So the first two verses are to show, what was in the beginning and to establish who and what it was and NOW that John's Gospel has done that, you will notice the Word and God and Not mentioned separately from here on as they are jointly referred to as,
Him and He.
1:4 In
Him (Through God and His Word) was life - Now we KNOW this life is referring to His Word - Psa 119:105 Thy
Word is a lamp unto my feet, and a
Light unto my path.
Therefore - this twisting in John 1:9 saying, this light was "about" to come into the world is again, MISLEADING to the reader as it was CLEARLY already in the world as the above shows along with many other OT verses.
Now then, back to John 1:3 - We have established who the Word and God are and they are One as in singular = All things were made by Him (and through His Word, the inner plan/thought now being expressed); and without Him (his word) was not anything made.
So if one insists Jesus is the creator, produce a single verse where Jesus said the likes of, let there be light.
Nehemiah 9:6 -- You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.
Psa 33:6 By the Word of the LORD were the heavens made and all the hosts of them by the breath of your mouth.
Oh,,, and you probably thinking and this is despite the numerous OT verses clearly stating, Almighty God alone created, that the NT has 2-3 verses suggesting Jesus created as in "By" Jesus all things were made.
NOTE: The Word "By" is supposed to be derived from the Greek word "DIA", well,,,,,,,,,, When one does some checking, "BY" is NOT even available to select from, I repeat, NOT.
DIA = on account of, by reason of, for the sake of and through.
So the overall meanings here, clearly SET the theme, meaning, of how we should be understanding/interpreting this word and that is, on account of, by reason of, for the sake of, Almighty God and Father alone created everything.
And this fits in perfectly with the verses I quoted above, Rev 13:8, 3:14 and Col 1:15.
So Jesus in the future context was the center stage, thought in God's initial planning/thought stage.
Then and not before, Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time was come (God's plan), God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law. Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been Hid IN God.
This sending forth is not at his birth, it is at his baptism where here received the Spirit without measure of which we now know, was also Words. Because or for the purpose of Jesus finishing the Fathers words, bring that Life giving word of the Fathers which was already in the world as the beginning, part plan of God and referred to at John 1:14.
The Spirit/Word came IN the flesh, tent, temple of Jesus and "they" dwelt among us as Jesus plainly and clearly points out many times in John confirming the Prophesy Emmanuel = God with us IN the flesh of His Son.
So there is no way one can come at this concoction, that Almighty God himself became flesh, unless we dismiss what the true church, Jesus himself says.
Jesus set the way, we now become the Temple of God as well where the Spirit/Word Almighty God and Father dwells in us 1 & 2 Cor, so God can be all in all - 1 Cor 15:28 AND when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be "subject" unto Him (God), that put all things under him, that God maybe all in all.
Hence we would now have Jesus's request to the Almighty God & Father fulfilled as in John 17:21 That they may all be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also maybe one in us:..........
Now we all know, this does NOT make us Almighty God, just as it doesn't make Jesus Almighty God and Father as he shows us;
John 20:17 My Father and your Father; and my God and your God.
AND - John 20:31 But these things are written, that ye "might" believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.
Show me one verses where Moses, Abraham and Co, thought this future one already existed is some way shape or form form, we don't even have a hint of one.
-----------------
let the Bible do the talking"
Hi Wotsup,
Wise words if only you would follow them
OK then Tonio, time to put your money where you words are, so to speak.
You have made a bold accusation and I say, it is grossly false, however, why don't You let the Bible do the talking and show us all, how what I have covered here, can not work or be Based on the Bible and the Verses references I gave.
Do it with counter verses BUT direct it to and stay on the points I have given you, stay on topic.
In other words, do your duty as in 2 Tim 4:2 and Not as in 2 Tim 4:3-4.
If we don't here from you, we will have to assume, you acknowledge this claim of yours to be false.
