The thing is, wotsup, you seem to have a counter for everything, regardless of whether I provide my insights to prove otherwise. For every counter you give, I can provide one in return. Yet here we are. Brother, you've taken this subject to extremes. You also seem to have a tendency to redefine word meanings—why?
As I've mentioned in previous responses, there is a counter-argument for your interpretations. Like you, I do not believe in the Trinity doctrine. However, I believe in the simplicity of what we are asked to do: pray to the Father in the name of the Son, Yeshua, and He will send the Spirit to be at one with us. In my opinion, the Spirit is our link to the Father.
Putting that aside, I still see Yeshua as worthy of worship, which, in my opinion, makes Him God. I'll use the Bible from a different perspective. I know we will always have to agree to disagree, and there’s no animosity meant by any means. Anyway, here’s a counter for your opinion. I’m providing my understanding and not sure why you say you all can’t provide such.
Counter Argument- Eternal Nature of Yeshua:
- Scriptural Basis: John 1:1-3 states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.” This passage asserts that Yeshua (the Word) existed with God from the very beginning and was instrumental in creation, indicating His eternal nature.
- Implication: If Yeshua was involved in the creation of all things, He cannot be merely a created being Himself. He is presented here as a divine being who exists outside of time.
- Yeshua as Divine:
- Scriptural Basis: Colossians 2:9 states, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” This verse affirms that the fullness of God resides in Yeshua, suggesting His divine nature and His worthiness of worship.
- Implication: This reinforces the belief that Yeshua is not just a messenger or a created being but embodies the divine essence of God Himself.
- Yeshua's Pre-existence:
- Scriptural Basis: John 17:5 shows Yeshua speaking to the Father, saying, “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.” This implies that Yeshua had a glorious existence with the Father prior to His incarnation.
- Implication: The notion that He "had" glory before the world existed supports the idea that He pre-existed His earthly life and was not merely created for His mission on Earth.
- Worship of Yeshua:
- Scriptural Basis: Philippians 2:9-11 declares, “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Yeshua every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Yeshua HaMashiach is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
- Implication: This passage highlights that Yeshua is worthy of worship and recognition as Lord, affirming His divine status and the need for all to honor Him.
- The Nature of His Being:
- Scriptural Basis: Hebrews 1:3 states, “Who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power.” This emphasizes Yeshua's role as the exact representation of God.
- Implication: The phrase “express image” indicates that Yeshua is not just a reflection of God but fully embodies His nature.
ConclusionWhile some may argue that Yeshua was created or made, Scripture presents Him as eternally existing with the Father and as God Himself. His divine attributes, pre-existence, and the call to worship Him affirm His central role in the faith.
I still dont understand how you get around this:
The passage you are referring to is Isaiah 9:6. In many translations, it describes a coming figure with divine titles. Here’s the verse from the
Tree of Life Version (TLV):
Isaiah 9:6 (TLV)"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will be on His shoulders. He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
Breakdown of the Titles:- Wonderful Counselor: Signifying wisdom and guidance.
- Mighty God: A clear reference to divinity, affirming Yeshua's nature as God.
- Everlasting Father: Indicating His eternal nature and fatherly role.
- Prince of Peace: Highlighting His role in bringing peace.
This verse is often cited to demonstrate that Yeshua is identified with divine attributes and worthy of worship. If you need more context or additional scripture references, feel free to ask!
John 16:28 (TLV)"I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; again, I am leaving the world and going to the Father."
