It seems, brother, that you are very fixated on this topic. To me, it’s not a salvation issue, and I believe there are more important matters that need our focus. To be honest, you remind me of a friend who constantly tries to convince me that the Earth is flat instead of a sphere. But really, how does that change anything significant in the grand scheme of life? It's a pointless debate in my opinion.
I see the same pattern here with what you're attempting. As I’ve mentioned several times, salvation and leading others to Yeshua are what truly matter. You don’t see Him as God, now or ever—alright, we get it. But we should move on from this subject. You've invested a lot of time and effort into pushing your point, and I respect that. I’ll respond one more time, but I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I know you’ve countered these points many times, and yes, you often attempt to reinterpret what the words mean. But for the sake of clarity, I’ll engage once more. That being said, can we please move on from this subject afterward?
It seems you are emphasizing that Yeshua, as the "Second Adam," did not pre-exist and only gradually assumed His divine titles and roles after His resurrection. However, this view overlooks key biblical passages that affirm Yeshua’s pre-existence, His inherent divinity, and the fullness of His identity as both God and man from the beginning.
1. Yeshua’s Pre-existence and Divine Nature
You mentioned that there is "absolutely nothing" suggesting Yeshua’s pre-existence, but Scripture clearly teaches otherwise. Consider John 1:1-3, which explicitly states:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made."
This passage not only affirms Yeshua’s pre-existence, but it also identifies Him as God. He was with God before creation, and it is through Him that everything was made. The Word (Yeshua) became flesh in John 1:14, underscoring that He existed before His incarnation:
"The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Yeshua existed as the Word before His human birth. He wasn’t merely a man who grew into these roles, but rather the eternal Son of God who took on human flesh.
2. Isaiah 9:6 and Yeshua’s Divine Titles
You interpreted the titles in Isaiah 9:6 as being acquired progressively by Yeshua, but the passage directly states that these are His names, which means they reflect His nature:
"For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
These are not titles He "became" over time but attributes of His identity from the moment He was born. "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father" are clear indicators of divinity, which no mere man could possess. The child born in Isaiah 9:6 is not only human but also divine from birth.
Moreover, Hebrews 13:8 states:
"Yeshua the Messiah is the same yesterday, today, and forever."
This shows that Yeshua's nature is unchanging—He did not transition from being merely human to divine. He has always been both.
3. Deuteronomy 18:18 and Yeshua as the Prophet
You referenced Deuteronomy 18:18 as pointing to Yeshua being raised up as a prophet, which is true, but you seem to overlook that Yeshua is not just a prophet—He is much more than that. He is both fully human and fully divine.
The New Testament makes it clear that while Yeshua grew in wisdom and stature as a man (Luke 2:52), His divine identity was already established. Consider Philippians 2:6-7:
"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to His own advantage; rather, He made Himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness."
Yeshua, though in the form of God, humbled Himself to take on human nature. This passage supports both His pre-existence and His voluntary incarnation, showing that He existed in divine form before becoming man.
4. Yeshua’s Relationship with the Father
You also questioned when Yeshua was not in favor if He existed pre-incarnate. This misunderstands Yeshua's dual nature. Yeshua, in His humanity, grew in wisdom and favor (Luke 2:52) as part of His experience as a man, but this does not negate His eternal divine relationship with the Father. His growth as a man was part of His role in fulfilling God’s plan of salvation, but His divinity remained intact.
In John 17:5, Yeshua prays:
"And now, Father, glorify Me in Your own presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed."
This verse further reinforces Yeshua’s pre-existence and His eternal glory with the Father before His incarnation.
5. Yeshua as the Second Adam
You refer to Yeshua as the "Second Adam," which is correct in the sense that He came to undo the curse of sin brought by the first Adam (Romans 5:12-21), but you cannot reduce Him to only a human figure who grew into His divine roles. The Bible consistently affirms that Yeshua is both fully God and fully man. His role as the "Second Adam" highlights His humanity and His representative role in salvation, but His divine nature is what makes His atoning work possible.
6. Yeshua’s Authority from Birth
You argue that Yeshua did not immediately have the government upon His shoulders, but this contradicts Matthew 28:18, where Yeshua declares after His resurrection:
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me."
This authority was inherent in Him as the Son of God. While His earthly ministry culminated in His glorification, His authority was never absent.
Conclusion
The Scriptures are clear: Yeshua existed before creation, in perfect unity with the Father. His divine nature did not develop over time—it was present from eternity. John 1:1 confirms His pre-existence, Isaiah 9:6 affirms His divine titles from birth, and Philippians 2:6-7 highlights His humility in taking on human form without ceasing to be God.
To deny Yeshua’s pre-existence and divinity undermines the core message of the Gospel and misrepresents the biblical teaching. I urge you to reconsider these key passages and see how they align with the truth that Yeshua has always been, and always will be, the eternal Son of God.
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